NESCAC 2010

[Gerrs]

A scary stat this year is the number of yellow cards garnered by Conn College. With today's yellow versus Tufts, their total stands at 10 after 11 games. For some perspective, last year NESCAC teams played a total of 161 games and incurred 15 yellow cards. In 2008 there were just 10 yellows in 158 games.

I wonder if NESCAC officials keep an eye on this stat. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a discussion with Conn's coach. There seems to be something wrong there.

[nescac1]

Here's a question for Becks -- has any team ever done so well INSIDE NESCAC but so poorly OUTSIDE the conference as Amherst (I realize the opposite is fairly commonplace)?  Amherst could well win the NESCAC regular season crown, but is highly unlikely it seems to make the tourney absent a NESCAC tourney championship. 

[Becks]

Here's a question for Becks -- has any team ever done so well INSIDE NESCAC but so poorly OUTSIDE the conference as Amherst (I realize the opposite is fairly commonplace)?  Amherst could well win the NESCAC regular season crown, but is highly unlikely it seems to make the tourney absent a NESCAC tourney championship. 

Looking back at league records, it's not unusual for a NESCAC team to have a better winning percentage in league play than overall.  What is unusual is the magnitude of the gap for this year's Amherst team.  Their league winning percentage is .714 while their overall winning percentage is 0.500, a gap of 0.214.  The record for the largest end-of-season gap for a NESCAC team finishing in the top 4 in the league, is 0.200 by Amherst in 2007 (0.667 league winning percentage and .467 overall winning percentage).  It's all in who you schedule, although this year NESCAC's out of league performances in general, and Amherst's in particular, have been unusually weak.

[Becks]

A scary stat this year is the number of yellow cards garnered by Conn College. With today's yellow versus Tufts, their total stands at 10 after 11 games. For some perspective, last year NESCAC teams played a total of 161 games and incurred 15 yellow cards. In 2008 there were just 10 yellows in 158 games.

I wonder if NESCAC officials keep an eye on this stat. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a discussion with Conn's coach. There seems to be something wrong there.

Gerrs - Good observation.  The league's year-end stats don't seem to include number of cards before 2008, but in 2008 and 2009 the most yellow cards garnered by a NESCAC team in all games was 4 and the most in league games was 1.  So quite possible that Conn is setting some kind of record for most unsportsmanlike play by a NESCAC team, since they already have 10 in all games and 4 in league play.  Probably not too early to hand out this year's NESCAC Elizabeth Lambert award to a certain Conn soph F/M who has 3 yellows overall and 2 in league play (which as an individual is more than the total for 8 of the 10 NESCAC teams). I wonder if NESCAC has a rule like the EPL, where if you get more than X yellows you have to sit out the next game.

Conn is also tops in the league in fouls per league game so far this season (about 0.5 fouls per game ahead of Williams), and led the league in fouls per league game last year. (Although Williams topped the league the prior year.)

The Lady Byng trophy currently looks like it will go to Trinity, with slightly more than 1/2 the fouls per game as Conn.  Which shows that you don't need to foul people to play good defense.

[deiscanton]

I've been reading this board and I just wanted to answer the question about yellow card accumulation.  

The NCAA soccer rules have a provision about yellow card accumulation--

If a player picks up 5 yellow card cautions over the course of the season, he/she must sit out the next game following the game in which he/she picked up the 5th yellow card of the season.

After the first suspension for yellow card accumulation, if the same player picks up 3 additional yellow card cautions for a total of 8 yellow cards for the season, he/she must sit out the next 2 games following the game in which he/she picked up the 8th yellow card of the season.  (1 game for the first 5, the additional for the next 3 games)

After 8 yellows, for each 2 additional yellow cards a player picks up, that player must sit out an additional 1 game suspension-- for example-- after the 10th yellow, the player must sit out the next 3 games, for the 12th yellow, the player must sit out the next 4 games, etc.  (Note: clarification of reading the NCAA soccer rules) 

--more--

[deiscanton]

If the game in which the player picked up the 5th, 8th, 10th yellow, etc. happened to be the final game of the regular season for the team, then the player must sit out the following game-- whether it be a postseason tournament game or the first regular season game of next season.   Scrimmages do not count for suspension purposes-- the suspension must be served during a regular season or postseason contest.

Naturally, if a player picks up a red card (thereby being sent off by the referee), he/she is automatically suspended for the next contest under NCAA rules.  For each additional red card received, the match ban increases by an additional game.

Example set by the NCAA:  Player A has picked up 4 yellows and a red card for the season in an NCAA soccer match.   Player A serves the mandatory 1 game suspension for the red card.  After the suspension, player A returns and picks up a red card for being cautioned twice in the same match.  (Recorded in the book as 1 yellow and 1 red)   Player A now has 5 yellows and 2 red cards for the season.   As a result, player A must sit out the next 3 matches-- 1 match for picking up his/her 5th yellow of the season, and the additional 2 matches for the 2 red cards accumulated.

[Becks]

5 is ridiculously generous.  That's the same as in the EPL, a 38-game season.  Shorter competitions - eg Champions league or World Cup - generally provide for suspension for a game if you accumulate 2 yellow cards.  Since NESCAC only has a 9 game regular season, a one game suspension after accumulating 2 or 3 yellows would seem appropriate.  5 in 9 games would be equivalent to 20 yellows in an EPL season.

If NESCAC doesn't already have its own yellow card accumulation rule, it should consider adopting one.

[freekick]

i know this isn't my "region." i'm a Great lakes "dad." but let me tell you what i did last year after the Elizabeth LAmbert incident. i wrote to a d3 soccer board member on the rules committee, a well-respected coach from a top team who had recruited my daughter--(she didn't attend that school, but the coach remembered her and me.) I described a series of events last year with referees in my daughter's games that i thought were indicative of the way referees called women's soccer games...two incidents were clear red cards, and so many were yellow cards it was laughable...my daughter's team had a total of -- guess how many -- ZERO yellow cards for the entire season, and only three called on their opponents. That is simply not possible. Women's collegiate referees don't call things like pushing down from behind, even late tackles...this coach acknowledged several things--refs don't like to call yellow cards because they are dependent on home coaches for their getting called to games, and at some level, there is a basic sexist attitude--girls can't be that rough because they are girls. The coach told me that it was topic of high importance for the committee before the 2010 season...so maybe what you're seeing isn't just a rougher than normal team, but calls being made that should have been made for years. hell, my daughter is a 5.8 and weighs more than 150 pounds...that's the size of small school football halfback...she can hurt people at full speed...i've seen more yellow cards in her conference this year too, and more than one on her own team...as it should be...i've still seen a couple of games where the referee allowed way too much, and in each case it led to a very rough finish to the contest...hey, why not, if you're not get carded for excessive physicality why not do it...so it really may be a case of a 'new world' in refereeing at the women's collegiate soccer level...that would be the good news...no ever really blamed the ref for the Elizabeth Lambert situation...she would have been gone from an English Premier league game, or even a D1 men's soccer game, long before it reached the point it did..so, if a player gets suspended after five yellows...yes...that would be great news.

[Gerrs]

freekick - Thanks for the good information. It seems to me that referees of women's soccer games have always been a bit reluctant to hand out yellow/red cards, and this sometimes leads to further dangerous play.

However, you may have somewhat misinterpreted two points in the preceding discussion thread. First, the refs of games played by NESCAC teams do not seem to have become more liberal in the handing out of cards in 2010. 8 of the 10 teams have 2 or fewer yellow cards, and 3 have none. Conn College has 10. (No team has a red card.)

Second, a 5-card accumulation rule for the suspension of an individual player is too high when the regular schedule is only 14 games.

[Becks]

All of this weekend's games are big games:

Conn at Colby - Loser is out of the NESCAC tournament.  Winner (particularly if the winner is Colby) is very much alive.

Bates at Middlebury - Middlebury probably needs to win to have a chance of getting home field for the first round of the NESCAC tournament.  Bates may need to win to avoid a last day, do-or-die game against arch rivals Colby.

Amherst at Welseyan - A win for Amherst would probably lock a home field for the first round of the NESCAC tournament.  A win by Wesleyan keeps their hopes of a home field spot alive.

Williams at Tufts - The game of the week.  This year's top team (so far) against the team that has won each of the last three years.  Also best defense in the league (Tufts) against best offense in the league (Williams). A win by Tufts would go far to give them the top seed in the NESCAC tournament and help their NCAA bid chances in case they don't win the tournament.  A win by Williams probably locks up a home field spot and may allow them to sneak into one of the top 2 seeds.  A loss might significantly damage their Pool C NCAA bid chances.

Trinity at Bowdoin - A win by Trinity takes them one step closer to locking up a home field for the first round of the NESCAC tournament.  A win by Bowdoin would ensure them of a NESCAC tournament spot.  A loss by Bowdoin may require them to get points in their final game at Tufts in order to make the tournament (although several plausible scenarios have them making it even if they lose both games).

[freekick]

You're right...I missed those points of distinction...happy to just to have an opportunity to weigh in on women's soccer referees. And, I agree five is too high a limit...two is probably too low, but three certainly falls within a "pattern of behavior" that would warrant a suspension for a game...I'd just be happy to know that an out-of-control studs up tackle would bring out the cards...seen it happen too many times with not even a whistle.

[deiscanton]

Gerrs--

Regarding Tufts's disciplinary record-- it is erroneously stated that Tufts has 2 yellow cards for the season and no reds.

Tufts has a red card on the season-- but it was erroneously recorded by the Trinity (CT) scorekeeper as a 2nd yellow against the same player where it should have been recorded as a yellow and a red on the player.   Therefore, Tufts's season disciplinary record should be 1 yellow and 1 red, not 2 yellows.

In the Tufts v Trinity (CT) match last Saturday, the Tufts senior co-captain (a defender) picked up a red card (as a result of getting 2 consecutive yellows in the same match) and was sent off by the referee in the 80th minute-- Tufts had to play with 10 players for the final 10 minutes of the match-- and the Jumbos were able to preserve the 1-0 victory against the Bantams.

The Tufts senior co-captain had picked up her first yellow in the 50th minute of the match vs Trinity (CT) and got her 2nd booking 30 minutes later.  

She served her mandatory 1 game suspension on Wednesday vs Conn College and will be available for the match vs Williams.

[Becks]

Gerrs--

Regarding Tufts's disciplinary record-- it is erroneously stated that Tufts has 2 yellow cards for the season and no reds.

Tufts has a red card on the season-- but it was erroneously recorded by the Trinity (CT) scorekeeper as a 2nd yellow against the same player where it should have been recorded as a yellow and a red on the player.   Therefore, Tufts's season disciplinary record should be 1 yellow and 1 red, not 2 yellows.

Don't refs show the 2d yellow and then show the red? So shouldn't that mean that Tufts' record should show 2 yellows and 1 red?  Unfortunately, from a stats standpoint, that would make it impossible to distinguish from 2 yellow card fouls with the 2d resulting in dismissal (ie 2 instances of bad conduct) and 2 yellow card fouls (ie by different players or in different games) and a separate red card foul (ie 3 instances of bad conduct).

[Becks]

Re yellow/red cards -- I want to note that, while getting yellows and reds generally indicates viscious conduct (my term, not FIFA's), a player can also pick up yellows or reds for entirely non-viscious conduct that is nontheless consider unsportsmanlike - eg shirt pulling, unintentional trip by the last defender, or objecting excessively to a ref's call/non-call.  Heck, two players on my son's U13 team picked up reds this fall for preventing goals with their hands (neither, unfortunately, was the keeper).    They must have seen how well it worked for Uruguay in the World Cup.  

[pcc]

Going to Conn vs Wesleyan a week from now. Wonder if they will add to their impressive yellow card total...