D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[SJSUPhil]

Wheaton should be in the #1 spot.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

This is the round that will help me determine if Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More are deserving of their rankings. I have doubted them all year. Wabash can prove it on the field. The other two have to hope that the team against whom they lost is competitive in the Quarters. Here's looking at you Wesley.

[smedindy]

What more does Wabash have to prove, pray tell? They made it to the quarters. JHU and Thomas More also proved that they're almost ready for Top 8 consideration - certainly they're in the mix for the Top 10-12.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

Wabash needs to beat someone that has had success on a regular basis in the playoffs.  So far they haven't.  Thomas More is from the PAC.  Let's look at the PAC history:

2014 W&J won the conference and they lost to MUC 67-0
2013 W&J won the conference and lost to MUC 34-20 (the year MUC got pounded in the championship game by UWW)
2012 W&J won the conference and lost to JHU 42-10 who then lost to MUC 55-13
2011 Thomas More won the conference and lost 24-21 to Franklin who lost 41-14 to UWW
2010 Thomas More won the PAC and lost 69-7 to MHB

St Thomas comes from a power conference.  If Wabash makes it a game then I'd agree that this season both Wabash and Thomas More are good teams - definitely in the mix for Top 12.

However, if Wabash gets blown out that is where final rankings get tricky.  The same goes for Wesley and JHU.  I'm expecting Wesley to get soundly beaten by MUC this Saturday. 

The week 11 poll had Wabash at 7, JHU at 8, Thomas More at 9, St Johns at 10 and Wesley at 11 followed by Hardin Simmons, MHB, UWP and North Central.

We'll get to see how Wabash stacks up to St Johns via the game against the Tommies which will help determine final rankings from St Thomas, Wabash, St Johns and Thomas More.

[02 Warhawk]

I have to agree with W3 on this one. Wabash has a lot to prove still I think. Destroying teams in the NCAC and needing to come from behind to win their first two playoff games doesn't scream top 10 to me.

They can't wait till the second half to start playing against St. Thomas, like they did against Albion and TM.

If they lose 20-28 this Saturday, then yes....Wabash is legit (along with Thomas More). They don't need to win in my book to move up these polls. Just keep it close.

[smedindy]

Making the Top 8 while being ranked in the Top 8? That's enough, man. Stop with the pedantic elitism. GOOD teams are one thing. This is a GREAT Wabash team. It may not be an ELITE team, that hasn't been proven yet.

[02 Warhawk]

Fair enough...they've made the quarter finals. That should be good enough to be a top 10 team....you're right.

I guess I'm more interested to see how this game turns out just to see how good Thomas More and St. John's really were.

[wally_wabash]

Fair enough...they've made the quarter finals. That should be good enough to be a top 10 team....you're right.

I guess I'm more interested to see how this game turns out just to see how good Thomas More and St. John's really were.

Watch them play, dude!  Watch a damn game and decide if they're any good.  Basing your opinion on who is good or not good using only the final scores of games that happen to briefly swoop into your own limited orbit once in a while is useless.  If you want to know if Thomas More is good- watch them play. 

[02 Warhawk]

Fair enough...they've made the quarter finals. That should be good enough to be a top 10 team....you're right.

I guess I'm more interested to see how this game turns out just to see how good Thomas More and St. John's really were.

Watch them play, dude!  Watch a damn game and decide if they're any good.  Basing your opinion on who is good or not good using only the final scores of games that happen to briefly swoop into your own limited orbit once in a while is useless.  If you want to know if Thomas More is good- watch them play.

If only the level of competition was the same for all teams. Then yes, that would be a good benchmark to judge teams by.

[wally_wabash]

Fair enough...they've made the quarter finals. That should be good enough to be a top 10 team....you're right.

I guess I'm more interested to see how this game turns out just to see how good Thomas More and St. John's really were.

Watch them play, dude!  Watch a damn game and decide if they're any good.  Basing your opinion on who is good or not good using only the final scores of games that happen to briefly swoop into your own limited orbit once in a while is useless.  If you want to know if Thomas More is good- watch them play.

If only the level of competition was the same for all teams. Then yes, that would be a good benchmark to judge teams by.

You've been watching the best of the best for a number of years now.  You should be able to watch good teams play and decide whether or not they are just sort of good or if they are really good.  You of all people should have that baseline. 

If you're not interested in teams outside of the WIAC, the MIAC, and Mount Union, that's cool.  You don't have to be.  But you should let the kind of permanent ink judgments you're about to lay down based on the result of the Wabash/UST game be handled by people who can be bothered to pay attention to something other than what's right in front of them. 

[Pat Coleman]

Relax, guys -- you can't prove Wabash is good on a message board or on Twitter. They can do that on the field. (Sounds like something I've had to say on Twitter every November that there has been Twitter.)

[sigma one]

Let's see. Using the result of the St Thomas/Wabash game, if St Thomas wins,  to determine whether St John's is better, or not, than Wabash.  Two teams from the MIAC who play one another all the time and who know one another.  Two teams from the MIAC who played twice this year.  Yes, let's use Saturday's result, points differential, to determine relative status.  Why not just go to that crazy website that shows that some DIII team is better than, say, Ohio State, because you can find a string of games that leads to that conclusion.

[smedindy]

If only the level of competition was the same for all teams. Then yes, that would be a good benchmark to judge teams by.

The bottom of the MIAC's always been shaky for the most part. The bottom of the WIAC probably hit the nadir of their program's existence (Eau Claire) or just stumbled along into mediocrity (no matter what the conference - Stout, LAX, River Falls). I mean, we're not talking world beaters - and I acknowledge we're not talking about McMurray or Rockford, either. The OAC was down, too, which is why we're ALL shocked Ohio Northern got a "C". Some programs there - like Capital - have backslid.

But direct comparisons of Team A vs. Team B depend on so much - weather, injuries, matchups. This Wabash vs. St. Thomas game is all about control of the line of scrimmage.

[02 Warhawk]

If only the level of competition was the same for all teams. Then yes, that would be a good benchmark to judge teams by.

The bottom of the MIAC's always been shaky for the most part. The bottom of the WIAC probably hit the nadir of their program's existence (Eau Claire) or just stumbled along into mediocrity (no matter what the conference - Stout, LAX, River Falls). I mean, we're not talking world beaters - and I acknowledge we're not talking about McMurray or Rockford, either. The OAC was down, too, which is why we're ALL shocked Ohio Northern got a "C". Some programs there - like Capital - have backslid.

But direct comparisons of Team A vs. Team B depend on so much - weather, injuries, matchups. This Wabash vs. St. Thomas game is all about control of the line of scrimmage.

Agreed. That is always the case when UWW and Mount plays. UWW usually controls both lines, and they win. The same happened with UWO and UWW, and UWO won. Plain and simple.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

Beating the PAC champion isn't the same as beating the MIAC or WIAC champion or Linfield, Hardin Baylor, or Wesley. Wabash has proven that they are a good football team.  They get the opportunity on Saturday to prove that they are a great team - win or lose.