D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

That would be me typing a wrong team in. Should have been Stevens Point. Not sure how I got that mixed up.
I have to bug you voters all the time about listing a team twice or forgetting a team on your ballots... apparently even I'm not perfect

[smedindy]

Tough week. Less than chalk, really. That makes it intriguing.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I had no real problem listing 1-13 (though I adjusted the position of several of them just before sending in my ballot), then it got REALLY hard.  In my view of teams 14-19, there just isn't anyone there!  And then there are about 20 teams deserving of 20-25!

[D3MAFAN]

I had no real problem listing 1-13 (though I adjusted the position of several of them just before sending in my ballot), then it got REALLY hard.  In my view of teams 14-19, there just isn't anyone there!  And then there are about 20 teams deserving of 20-25!

Definitely agree with this statement.

[02 Warhawk]

Yea, pretty much the same here. However, I did flip-flop my #1 and #2 teams from last week. But other than that, the top half remained the same, while the bottom half was challenging.

[USee]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

[D3MAFAN]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

[wally_wabash]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

That's a convenient out for people who are predisposed to discounting teams from the HCAC (or other similarly unglamorous leagues).  There aren't a lot of teams in the division that would have done much better against Butler. 

[02 Warhawk]

Wasn't me...I have Franklin ahead of Thomas More.

[USee]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

Well the further mystery is then why was Franklin ranked ahead of Butler in the weeks 4 and 5 fan poll, which occurred after the Butler game (and after the TMC v WJ game), but then strangely ranked behind them in the week 6 poll? And when did results against non d3 opponents (or any opponents) trump a direct H2H result? The only time I can remember is when there are 3+ teams who all beat each other.

[HSCTiger74]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

Well the further mystery is then why was Franklin ranked ahead of Butler in the weeks 4 and 5 fan poll, which occurred after the Butler game (and after the TMC v WJ game), but then strangely ranked behind them in the week 6 poll? And when did results against non d3 opponents (or any opponents) trump a direct H2H result? The only time I can remember is when there are 3+ teams who all beat each other.

  H2H is obviously important, but it is not the be-all, end-all determinant. Everyone will have his own ideas about what factors to consider and how to construct his list. Besides, as I once noted to Grizz when I turned in my poll, upsets happen. Whether or not the Franklin/TMC result (in the first game of the season) was an upset is for each voter to determine.

[wally_wabash]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

Well the further mystery is then why was Franklin ranked ahead of Butler in the weeks 4 and 5 fan poll, which occurred after the Butler game (and after the TMC v WJ game), but then strangely ranked behind them in the week 6 poll? And when did results against non d3 opponents (or any opponents) trump a direct H2H result? The only time I can remember is when there are 3+ teams who all beat each other.

  H2H is obviously important, but it is not the be-all, end-all determinant. Everyone will have his own ideas about what factors to consider and how to construct his list. Besides, as I once noted to Grizz when I turned in my poll, upsets happen. Whether or not the Franklin/TMC result (in the first game of the season) was an upset is for each voter to determine.

But it kind of is the end-all.  In the absence of other, disqualifying results (namely losses- probably multiple-  by that team that won h2h).  Maybe the combination of TMC's wins vs. WJ and Westminster plus the Butler loss is enough for some voters to place TMC ahead of Franklin.  Maybe.  I have a hard time believing that Franklin's conference doesn't influence that decision, which is the part that stinks the most IMO. 

[HSCTiger74]

So how does Franklin, who beat Thomas More, go from ranked ahead of TMC to ranked behind them when they both won in most recent poll? Have you guys lost your minds or are you cut and pasting from the national poll? 

I think this has to do more with how Franklin performance against Butler, although they are a scholarship program. I think Thomas More result against a good W&J factored in more for the voters.

Well the further mystery is then why was Franklin ranked ahead of Butler in the weeks 4 and 5 fan poll, which occurred after the Butler game (and after the TMC v WJ game), but then strangely ranked behind them in the week 6 poll? And when did results against non d3 opponents (or any opponents) trump a direct H2H result? The only time I can remember is when there are 3+ teams who all beat each other.

  H2H is obviously important, but it is not the be-all, end-all determinant. Everyone will have his own ideas about what factors to consider and how to construct his list. Besides, as I once noted to Grizz when I turned in my poll, upsets happen. Whether or not the Franklin/TMC result (in the first game of the season) was an upset is for each voter to determine.

But it kind of is the end-all.  In the absence of other, disqualifying results (namely losses- probably multiple-  by that team that won h2h).  Maybe the combination of TMC's wins vs. WJ and Westminster plus the Butler loss is enough for some voters to place TMC ahead of Franklin.  Maybe.  I have a hard time believing that Franklin's conference doesn't influence that decision, which is the part that stinks the most IMO.

  We all know that polls are just opinions, and that's why they should be taken with a grain of salt. My opinion tells me one thing and yours tells you another, so we probably each consider the other "wrong", but there's no animus involved. And the conference definitely plays a role. I think that the PAC > the HCAC, so in my opinion TMC has been trending higher than Franklin. I'm sure you disagree and think it stinks, and that's OK. It would be a pretty boring world if we all agreed about everything.

[smedindy]

It's not Franklin's conference, but the fact they squeaked past Bluffton (which at the time looked sketchy, but now looks pretty good and I've adjusted my ranking on Franklin to account for that) and giving up 27 to Manchester (albeit 14 in garbage time) that may be driving some rankings.

Meanwhile TMC didn't just beat W&J, they crushed 'em and then handed a good Westminster squad their only loss. Yes, Carnegie Mellon was close, but C-M is a good team that had a front loaded schedule (TMC, W&J and a good Wash U squad)

So putting all that data in the blender, and I can see TMC over Franklin in some people's minds. It's a long way from week 1.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It's not Franklin's conference, but the fact they squeaked past Bluffton (which at the time looked sketchy, but now looks pretty good and I've adjusted my ranking on Franklin to account for that) and giving up 27 to Manchester (albeit 14 in garbage time) that may be driving some rankings.

Meanwhile TMC didn't just beat W&J, they crushed 'em and then handed a good Westminster squad their only loss. Yes, Carnegie Mellon was close, but C-M is a good team that had a front loaded schedule (TMC, W&J and a good Wash U squad)

So putting all that data in the blender, and I can see TMC over Franklin in some people's minds. It's a long way from week 1.

Agree with all this.  I DO have Franklin still above TM, but can understand the counter-arguments.

On a somewhat similar issue, Denison should have no problem with Allegheny this weekend, but then faces DePauw and Wabash.  A part of me roots for the upstart; a part of me roots for DePauw and/or Wabash to squash them.  I have Denison at #16 this week and that just FEELS way too high.   But what can I do - Denison beat Witt, who beat both Wabash and DePauw: Denison for now is clearly the top of the NCAC, yet I felt all three others should be Top 25.