D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[smedindy]

Muhlenberg stinks and aren't we all still waiting for HSU's first big win...ever

Oh, to stink like that, dude.

Muhlenberg's last losing season was 2009.

One of the biggest problems when you have this handful of super dynasty teams is people lose sight of how good teams are outside of those programs, so everyone "stinks". Even the 8-9 win program they were before they started making these playoff runs...do people not realize how hard it is to be successful like that? And the number of D3 programs that would take it in a heartbeat?

Shout it from the mountaintops, friend.  UMHB, UWW, UMU (maybe NCC creeping into the club)...these are outliers of outliers.

I' think there are some just behind them, where two regular season losses is very rare: Johns Hopkins, Linfield, Del Val, Wheaton, H-S, St. John's. There are others. Some are due to their conference and schedule, but a three-loss regular season would cause angst and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes.

[HOPEful]

I' think there are some just behind them, where two regular season losses is very rare: Johns Hopkins, Linfield, Del Val, Wheaton, H-S, St. John's. There are others. Some are due to their conference and schedule, but a three-loss regular season would cause angst and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes.

For me, the biggest difference is seasonal expectations. For fans of MHB, Mount, WW, and recently North Central, the expectation seems to be that anything short of the Stagg Bowl is a disappointing season. There are certainly years where that may be true in McMinnville, Wheaton, and Doylestown, but it is not a reasonable expectation of those schools to be perennially playing for walnut and bronze. Heck, with the exception of Oshkosh in 2016 and no longer D3 St. Thomas, it's been almost 20 years since someone outside those 4 played in the Stagg Bowl. If you want to be perceived as elite, you have to play on the biggest stage... and fair or not, that means getting there.

[Cowboy2]

I' think there are some just behind them, where two regular season losses is very rare: Johns Hopkins, Linfield, Del Val, Wheaton, H-S, St. John's. There are others. Some are due to their conference and schedule, but a three-loss regular season would cause angst and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes.

For me, the biggest difference is seasonal expectations. For fans of MHB, Mount, WW, and recently North Central, the expectation seems to be that anything short of the Stagg Bowl is a disappointing season. There are certainly years where that may be true in McMinnville, Wheaton, and Doylestown, but it is not a reasonable expectation of those schools to be perennially playing for walnut and bronze. Heck, with the exception of Oshkosh in 2016 and no longer D3 St. Thomas, it's been almost 20 years since someone outside those 4 played in the Stagg Bowl. If you want to be perceived as elite, you have to play on the biggest stage... and fair or not, that means getting there.

I agree. To be the best you have to beat the best.

I know different regions have their own bias, based on regional powerhouses, but this year we have seen a lot of parity amongst OOC and out of region play. Have the rest of the league's good teams gotten better or have the best teams fallen a bit? Who knows. Not way of telling unless looking at head to head matchups or common opponents.

I know it won't happen but for those teams fortunate enough to punch their playoff ticket, it would be fun as a fan to see the entire bracket go to a lottery system. If the NCAA is all for fairness, as in "win your league and in," while not having to go to Pool C option; how cool would it be to see a randomized bracket instead of regional or geographical seeding...yes you may have 2- #1seeds going at it the first round or two  (common out west or in the south), or you may have a dark horse, you may have a sweet 16 darling arise, but basically you get rid of the gridlock that essentially puts the 1a-1d tier teams in situation where it's almost given they meet in the final 4. Thoughts?

[bleedpurple]

I' think there are some just behind them, where two regular season losses is very rare: Johns Hopkins, Linfield, Del Val, Wheaton, H-S, St. John's. There are others. Some are due to their conference and schedule, but a three-loss regular season would cause angst and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes.

For me, the biggest difference is seasonal expectations. For fans of MHB, Mount, WW, and recently North Central, the expectation seems to be that anything short of the Stagg Bowl is a disappointing season. There are certainly years where that may be true in McMinnville, Wheaton, and Doylestown, but it is not a reasonable expectation of those schools to be perennially playing for walnut and bronze. Heck, with the exception of Oshkosh in 2016 and no longer D3 St. Thomas, it's been almost 20 years since someone outside those 4 played in the Stagg Bowl. If you want to be perceived as elite, you have to play on the biggest stage... and fair or not, that means getting there.

You aren't kidding!  After last season's disappointing semi-final loss against UMHB, there were fan's calling for Coach Bullis at UW-W to be fired.  His career record:  71-11.  His record in the WIAC, the consensus most powerful conference in D-III, is 41-3.  Goes to your point about expectations.

[02 Warhawk]

I' think there are some just behind them, where two regular season losses is very rare: Johns Hopkins, Linfield, Del Val, Wheaton, H-S, St. John's. There are others. Some are due to their conference and schedule, but a three-loss regular season would cause angst and the wearing of sackcloth and ashes.

For me, the biggest difference is seasonal expectations. For fans of MHB, Mount, WW, and recently North Central, the expectation seems to be that anything short of the Stagg Bowl is a disappointing season. There are certainly years where that may be true in McMinnville, Wheaton, and Doylestown, but it is not a reasonable expectation of those schools to be perennially playing for walnut and bronze. Heck, with the exception of Oshkosh in 2016 and no longer D3 St. Thomas, it's been almost 20 years since someone outside those 4 played in the Stagg Bowl. If you want to be perceived as elite, you have to play on the biggest stage... and fair or not, that means getting there.

You aren't kidding!  After last season's disappointing semi-final loss against UMHB, there were fan's calling for Coach Bullis at UW-W to be fired.  His career record:  71-11.  His record in the WIAC, the consensus most powerful conference in D-III, is 41-3.  Goes to your point about expectations.

I've been guilty of that as a UWW alumn....I admit it. Got a little spoiled, I guess. But I've never gone as far as to say Bullis should be let go though. Going forward, I think this team has a good chance to win the WIAC each year, along with advancing a few rounds in the playoffs. My Stagg Bowl or bust mentality is slowly dwindling as a fan. The program has suffered some bad playoff losses (as in boarderline blow outs) over the past few years that have brought expectations back down to earth. Since last winning it all in 2014 - coincidently since Leipold left - UWW has exited the post season by an average loss of over 21 points.

2015: Lost by 30 (Mount)
2016: Lost by 17 (John Carroll)
2017: Missed the playoffs
2018: Lost by 17 (MHB)
2019: Lost by 27 (NCC) - Stagg Bowl
2020: No season
2021: Lost by 17 (MHB)

[HOPEful]

I've been guilty of that as a UWW alumn....I admit it.

Guilty is harsh and implies you did something wrong. Look at Mount Union for example.... most seasons, there's not a team in the OAC that can challenge them outside of John Carroll occasionally. They're currently lamenting a 28-6 win over a team that was ranked as high as #17 in the country earlier this season. Most games they win by the score of their choosing. I think it would be very hard to get excited for an undefeated regular season with the success they've had. In many ways, to a Mount fan, the season starts the first round of the playoffs. I do like that some of the other teams have worked hard to schedule each other, regardless of distance. It would have been fun to see Mount play someone other than Defiance in non-conference play, prefarably someone much better.

Replace John Carroll with Wheaton or Hardin-Simmons, and you could tell a similar story about North Central and Mary Hardin Baylor fans. Whitewater is a little different seeing as they have to go through the WIAC... but when you go to 10 Stagg Bowls in a 15 year stretch, those expectations are probably pretty entrenched into the culture. 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

2022 WEEK 6 TOP 25 FAN POLL

Rank	Team	W-L	Points	Prev
1)	North Central (5)	5-0	195	1
2)	UW-Whitewater (2)	4-1	183	2
3)	Mount Union (1)	5-0	180	3
4)	Mary Hardin-Baylor	5-1	179	4
5)	Trinity (TX)	5-0	158	5
6)	Linfield	4-0	157	7
7)	St John's	4-1	154	6
8)	Johns Hopkins	5-0	136	T8
9)	UW-La Crosse	4-1	128	T8
10)	Bethel	4-1	122	10
11)	Hardin-Simmons	4-1	116	11
12)	Cortland	5-0	106	12
13)	UW-River Falls	4-1	103	17
T14)	Ithaca	5-0	95	14
T14)	Wheaton	3-2	95	15
16)	Delaware Valley	6-0	92	13
17)	Wartburg	6-0	66	19
18)	UW-Oshkosh	3-2	61	16
19)	Carnegie Mellon	6-0	56	18
20)	Randolph-Macon	5-0	53	20
21)	Susquehanna	5-0	45	21
22)	Albion	6-0	42	22
23)	Huntingdon	4-1	35	23
24)	Washington U	5-0	13	NR
T25)	Bridgewater	5-0	5	NR
T25)	Mount St Joseph	5-0	5	NR

Dropped Out: #24 DePauw and #25 Central

Also Receiving Votes: John Carroll 4, Monmouth 4, Utica 4, Endicott 2, Grove City 2, Carleton 1, Central 1, DePauw 1, Washington & Jefferson 1

Voters: 02 Warhawk, Captainred81, desertcat1, FCGG, HOPEful, MRMIKESMITH, NCF, and smedindy

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

  1)   North Central           195     ( 1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  2,  3,  3)
  2)   UW-Whitewater           183     ( 1,  1,  2,  3,  3,  4,  4,  7)
  3)   Mount Union             180     ( 1,  2,  2,  3,  4,  4,  5,  7)
  4)   Mary Hardin-Baylor      179     ( 2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  4,  5,  8)
  5)   Trinity (TX)            158     ( 4,  4,  5,  5,  6,  7,  9, 10)
  6)   Linfield                157     ( 2,  3,  5,  7,  7,  8,  9, 10)
  7)   St John's               154     ( 5,  6,  6,  6,  6,  7,  8, 10)
  8)   Johns Hopkins           136     ( 5,  7,  8,  9,  9, 11, 11, 12)
  9)   UW-La Crosse            128     ( 4,  6,  8,  8, 10, 10, 13, 21)
10)   Bethel                  122     ( 5,  9,  9, 10, 10, 11, 15, 17)
11)   Hardin-Simmons          116     ( 8,  8,  9, 10, 11, 13, 16, 17)
12)   Cortland                106     ( 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 17, 19)
13)   UW-River Falls          103     ( 6,  7, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16, 18)
T14)   Ithaca                   95     (11, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15, 20)
T14)   Wheaton                  95     ( 9, 11, 14, 14, 15, 15, 17, 18)
16)   Delaware Valley          92     (11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 18, 19)
17)   Wartburg                 66     (12, 16, 16, 18, 18, 19, 21, 22)
18)   UW-Oshkosh               61     (13, 15, 16, 17, 17, 18, 25, --)
19)   Carnegie Mellon          56     (16, 17, 19, 19, 19, 20, 20, 22)
20)   Randolph-Macon           53     (14, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 23, --)
21)   Susquehanna              45     (18, 20, 20, 20, 21, 21, 21, 22)
22)   Albion                   42     (15, 19, 20, 22, 22, 22, 23, 23)
23)   Huntingdon               35     (11, 19, 22, 23, 24, 24, 24, --)
24)   Washington U             13     (23, 23, 23, 24, 25, 25, --, --)
T25)   Bridgewater               5     (21, --, --, --, --, --, --, --)
T25)   Mount St Joseph           5     (21, --, --, --, --, --, --, --)

T27)   John Carroll              4     (24, 24)
T27)   Monmouth                  4     (22)
T27)   Utica                     4     (23, 25)
T30)   Endicott                  2     (24)
T30)   Grove City                2     (24)
T32)   Carleton                  1     (25)
T32)   Central                   1     (25)
T32)   DePauw                    1     (25)
T32)   Wash & Jeff               1     (25)

[IC798891]

If you want to be perceived as elite, you have to play on the biggest stage... and fair or not, that means getting there.

I guess my point wasn't what you need to do to be considered elite.

It's more this sense of not being able to appreciate good football teams because we're too busy lamenting that they aren't "great." Too busy complaining about what they aren't to be proud of what they are.

[HOPEful]

It's more this sense of not being able to appreciate good football teams because we're too busy lamenting that they aren't "great." Too busy complaining about what they aren't to be proud of what they are.

I totally understand. And it's somewhat unfortunate that the elite teams have taken a lot of the luster away from the rest of d3 over the last 20 years. I do think that gap has diminished, which is exciting to see, and I think what you're getting at. The distance between MHB, Mount, WW, and NC is much smaller when comparing those teams to Linfield, Wheaton, Trinity, Johns Hopkins, St. John's, etc. And all those programs have really, really good teams that are fun to watch. We've unfortunately diminished the accomplishment of going undefeated and annihilating every team in your conference if it means a first round exit from the playoffs. Or, closer to home, it sometimes feels like region 4 isn't worth talking about because it's Mount Union and a bunch of nobodies. How good is Albion this year? The prevailing thought seems to be "Meh, we'll find out when they actually play someone in the postseason."

[Captainred81]

A)  Someone has LaCrosse at 21... Seems unfair. 
B)  Mount took a beating in this poll with a hard fought win over a pretty talented team.


C)  As a Mount grad I can definitely confirm the expectation is the Stagg Bowl.  However, one of the most impressive things (and maybe toughest) is the mentality that is tough each week.  The goals set before the team are the same as everywhere.  Win the game, win the conference, win the title.  The coaches let each player know that they can be replaced (there is always another player waiting for their shot), and that each week they can be beat.  This is not to say that they don't get caught looking ahead or underestimating a team, but it does show that they are not expecting a win to be handed to them. 

D)  As Mount fan, I always want them to win and go to the Stagg.  I think that these "Dynasties" are cyclical.  In the 80's Ithaca, Dayton...In the 90's LaCrosse, Rowan, Albion, Mount...In the OT's  Mount, UWW... In the 10's Mount, UWW, UMHB, Wesley, St Thomas, 2020's still TBD, but at least UMHB, UWW, Mount...NCC is making a case.  I think the term Dynasty in D3 has a different meaning, since some these Dynasties (UWW and UMU) are so long lasting.  In 10 more years who knows what teams will be at the top.  It might be HSU, and Wheaton or John Carroll and Bethel. 

[Captainred81]

And...
E)  I think that the match ups in the playoffs ( I know the 600 miles rule) should rotate.  IE East plays, south North Plays west, then West plays Norths, and East Plays South you get the point.  That way the matchups can change years to year. 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

B)  Mount took a beating in this poll with a hard fought win over a pretty talented team.

Mount actually gained a point this week. And UMHB gained 2 points. Top two stayed even.

[TheChucker]

A)  Someone has LaCrosse at 21... Seems unfair. 
B)  Mount took a beating in this poll with a hard fought win over a pretty talented team.


C)  As a Mount grad I can definitely confirm the expectation is the Stagg Bowl.  However, one of the most impressive things (and maybe toughest) is the mentality that is tough each week.  The goals set before the team are the same as everywhere.  Win the game, win the conference, win the title.  The coaches let each player know that they can be replaced (there is always another player waiting for their shot), and that each week they can be beat.  This is not to say that they don't get caught looking ahead or underestimating a team, but it does show that they are not expecting a win to be handed to them. 

D)  As Mount fan, I always want them to win and go to the Stagg.  I think that these "Dynasties" are cyclical.  In the 80's Ithaca, Dayton...In the 90's LaCrosse, Rowan, Albion, Mount...In the OT's  Mount, UWW... In the 10's Mount, UWW, UMHB, Wesley, St Thomas, 2020's still TBD, but at least UMHB, UWW, Mount...NCC is making a case.  I think the term Dynasty in D3 has a different meaning, since some these Dynasties (UWW and UMU) are so long lasting.  In 10 more years who knows what teams will be at the top.  It might be HSU, and Wheaton or John Carroll and Bethel.

Good post. For the 80s, don't forget Augustana. 4 straight national titles and (I think) 60 consecutive victories.

[smedindy]

A)  Someone has LaCrosse at 21... Seems unfair. 

Someone had them at 4. It balances out. It always does, it seems.