D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[K-Mack]

Other people clearly disagree with the "who woulda done what on a neutral field" thinking and such. It's valid, I suppose.

Week 1 H2H matchups get less and less valid, I think, as time moves on.

And Keith, what would have happened if North Central played Cal Lutheran and won. Where would Redlands, NC, and Cal Lutheran shake out?

Same issue occurred last season when Rowan, Montclair St, and Cortland St. all beat each other. And all three teams finished with just that one loss.

Sorry for the slow reply.

This happens every season in a few conferences. The playoffs and conferences have their own ways of sorting this out, but for the purpose of rankings, we can also consider the non-conference games, the margin of victory in the h2h games or special circumstances (game x occurred later in the season, with player y injured and not participating), etc.

The triangles can be dealt with because there's an even amount of data for each; going 1-1 against the other two in the group.

The trouble is when, say, Kean beats Wesley but then loses to Brockport State later in the year ... or when there are four- and five-way groups to compare

[K-Mack]

I see I'm still the only one giving Muskingum points so far.

It makes me feel not totally stupid knowing they are getting 17 points on the D3football.com poll. 

The problem is there's 30-35 teams that could be in the top 25. If we had more voters I'm sure a few might give them a couple points. They're on my watch list, but probably only the 2nd or 3rd team I'd move in next week if teams drop out.

Yes I think it might be time to revive the top 25 overflow item in ATN, except rank it all the way out to 50. As I have long mentioned, if a 120-team division ranks its top 25, then a 240-team division could rank a top 50 to fairly compare. i.e. being top 50 in D-III = being top 25 in D1.

[K-Mack]

Muskingum loses, see this is why most of us did not rank them. 

What is interesting here is that unless Mount gets upset by someone, the OAC's 2nd place team will be no better than 8-2. Makes things a little more interesting for the Pool C discussion. Throw in the WIAC's typical craziness, the IIAC carnage today, CCIW with IWU still to play NCC, the NJAC's possible finish and this could be one of the most unpredictable/controversial Pool C years we've had in a while.

But at least the Fan Poll got easier...oh, wait. 

ASC and SCIAC are in line to get Pool C bids.

I wasn't implying the ASC and SCIAC wouldn't be in the Pool C race, merely listing a couple of conference races that have the potential of getting really crazy down the stretch. The MIAC could be included in this list as well.

Please understand, as the poster from the southwestern realm of D3, I wanted to bring those conferences to the discussion.

I also think that the NJAC, the MIAC and the E8 are on the short list for Pool C.

By that I mean that those conferences should have 2 teams in the Regional Rankings, from which Pool C is taken.

I think Oshkosh would have a tremendous case if it goes 8-0 and then loses to UMU and UWW. Would be unique and unprecendented, but it's basically the same as Hobart going unbeaten, no? Except they would have an AQ to show for it.

[smedindy]

I see I'm still the only one giving Muskingum points so far.

It makes me feel not totally stupid knowing they are getting 17 points on the D3football.com poll. 

The problem is there's 30-35 teams that could be in the top 25. If we had more voters I'm sure a few might give them a couple points. They're on my watch list, but probably only the 2nd or 3rd team I'd move in next week if teams drop out.

Yes I think it might be time to revive the top 25 overflow item in ATN, except rank it all the way out to 50. As I have long mentioned, if a 120-team division ranks its top 25, then a 240-team division could rank a top 50 to fairly compare. i.e. being top 50 in D-III = being top 25 in D1.

I agree, but even then you'd have arguments, especially with some of the OAC, WIAC and ODAC schools that like to beat each other up versus teams that are 7-3 or so. But it's a fun exercise!

[bleedpurple]

D3 TOP 25 FAN POLL: WEEK 8

1.  Wisconsin-Whitewater (14)       422          1
2.  Mount Union (3)                       410           2
3.  St. Thomas                               386          3
4. (t) Linfield                                 366           5
4. (t) Mary Hardin-Baylor               366          4
6.  North Central                            333          6
7.  Wesley                                     303          7
8.  Montclair St.                             269          9
9.  Thomas More                            260         8
10. Wabash                                   253          10
11.  Bethel                                    231          11(t)
12.  California Lutheran                  214          13
13.  Illinois Wesleyan                     212          14
14.  Wheaton                                204           16
15.  Salisbury                                196          18
16.  Delaware Valley                     181           15
17.  Redlands                                135           19
18.  Wisconsin-Oshkosh                 132          20
19.  Johns Hopkins                           92          21
20.  Kean                                         72          11(t)
21.  Franklin                                     66          23
22.  Louisiana College                       63          24
23.  Adrian                                       49          25
24.  Trinity                                       39          unranked
25.  Cortland State                           36          22

Dropped Out of Top 25: Wartburg

Also Receiving Votes:  Hobart (35), St. Olaf (33), McMurry (32), Wittenberg (29), Centre (26), Dubuque (21), Hobart (20), Hampden-Sydney (14), Wisconsin-Eau Claire (11), Washington and Lee (9), Monmouth (7), Wartburg (7), St. John Fisher (6), Baldwin-Wallace (3), Endicott (2)             

[emma17]

I'm a bit surprised with how Franklin is holding the #21 ranking when I look at some of the other 1 loss teams that are unranked.  McMurry (in D3), Dubuque and even 2 loss Eau Claire are teams I would take in a "pick em" over Franklin. 

Anybody else surprised?

[02 Warhawk]

I'm a bit surprised with how Franklin is holding the #21 ranking when I look at some of the other 1 loss teams that are unranked.  McMurry (in D3), Dubuque and even 2 loss Eau Claire are teams I would take in a "pick em" over Franklin. 

Anybody else surprised?

Their only loss was to the #1 ranked team in the nation....that's why I have them above the teams you mentioned.

[smedindy]

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

I'm surprised Centre and Trinity haven't gotten the love, especially Centre. Their win against BSC proved their worth and the win against W&L looks less and less like a fluky win.

Could it be pollsters resist the Canadian spelling? 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

I probably have the most interest in Franklin here and sadly I've dropped them out of my poll. Maybe it's the fact that I actually pay attention to their games rather than just seeing the final score, or me being tougher on them to try to not be biased.

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

Really? They lost 45-0 (down 35-0 at halftime and first time shut out in a long time), had less than 200 yards of offense, gave up over 470 yards, and had 4 turnovers. It was a much better game last season in the playoffs. So far this season they have consistently struggled to rush the ball and have turned the ball over way too much. They've fumbled 9 times and thrown 11 interceptions and average turnover margin per game is -1. I just don't have faith in them compared to other teams near the bottom of the top 25.

I'm surprised Centre and Trinity haven't gotten the love, especially Centre. Their win against BSC proved their worth and the win against W&L looks less and less like a fluky win.

Could it be pollsters resist the Canadian spelling? 

Assuming you're referring to Trinity (TX) and not Trinity (CT), I have them up at 16th. And Centre is 23rd for me. They at least are getting some votes... what about 7-0 Endicott? I'm the only one to have them on my ballot.

[02 Warhawk]

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

Really? They lost 45-0 (down 35-0 at halftime and first time shut out in a long time), had less than 200 yards of offense, gave up over 470 yards, and had 4 turnovers. It was a much better game last season in the playoffs. So far this season they have consistently struggled to rush the ball and have turned the ball over way too much. They've fumbled 9 times and thrown 11 interceptions and average turnover margin per game is -1. I just don't have faith in them compared to other teams near the bottom of the top 25.

I was going to say the same thing.

It's what Franklin did AFTER the UWW game that impressed me.

[jknezek]

I'm surprised Centre and Trinity haven't gotten the love, especially Centre. Their win against BSC proved their worth and the win against W&L looks less and less like a fluky win.

Listened to this game on the radio. There was nothing fluky about it. Two teams with a lot of seniors and very contrasting styles. W&L played a better first half, Centre played a better second half and caught up to win. Both are good teams. Not top 15 good in my opinion, but toward the bottom of the top 25 is probably about right. Not much separating them and if the game was played 50 times, I think whichever team is home wins 35-40 of them.

Centre, H-SC, W&L, B-SC, and Huntingdon all have cases to be ranked somewhere 7-10 in the south. Trinity may be a cut ahead and certainly had the advantage of a home game against Huntingdon and upcoming home games against Centre and B-SC. Centre had and H-SC has the advantage of a home game against W&L, B-SC had home games against Centre (which may turn out to be the only road victory in the bunch) and Huntingdon, and Huntingdon had the home game against H-SC. There might be a pattern by the end of the year with Trinity playing the majority of the group, but only at home.

[MasterJedi]

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

Really? They lost 45-0 (down 35-0 at halftime and first time shut out in a long time), had less than 200 yards of offense, gave up over 470 yards, and had 4 turnovers. It was a much better game last season in the playoffs. So far this season they have consistently struggled to rush the ball and have turned the ball over way too much. They've fumbled 9 times and thrown 11 interceptions and average turnover margin per game is -1. I just don't have faith in them compared to other teams near the bottom of the top 25.

I was going to say the same thing.

It's what Franklin did AFTER the UWW game that impressed me.

I think Franklin, overall is a good team, just not at the level they were at least year. They have the building blocks though IMO to be a very good team next year after their QB gets his experience this year.

[smedindy]

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

Really? They lost 45-0 (down 35-0 at halftime and first time shut out in a long time), had less than 200 yards of offense, gave up over 470 yards, and had 4 turnovers. It was a much better game last season in the playoffs. So far this season they have consistently struggled to rush the ball and have turned the ball over way too much. They've fumbled 9 times and thrown 11 interceptions and average turnover margin per game is -1. I just don't have faith in them compared to other teams near the bottom of the top 25.

I was going to say the same thing.

It's what Franklin did AFTER the UWW game that impressed me.

against / after same thing, right?

[smedindy]

I'm surprised Centre and Trinity haven't gotten the love, especially Centre. Their win against BSC proved their worth and the win against W&L looks less and less like a fluky win.

Could it be pollsters resist the Canadian spelling? 

Assuming you're referring to Trinity (TX) and not Trinity (CT), I have them up at 16th. And Centre is 23rd for me. They at least are getting some votes... what about 7-0 Endicott? I'm the only one to have them on my ballot.
[/quote]

I've been saying about how Thomas More is overrated. I just checked the Massey Ratings in D-3 and Endicott is #39 while Thomas More is #40. Hmmm....

[02 Warhawk]

I have Franklin at 17. Their game against Whitewater showed that they're pretty much for real.

Really? They lost 45-0 (down 35-0 at halftime and first time shut out in a long time), had less than 200 yards of offense, gave up over 470 yards, and had 4 turnovers. It was a much better game last season in the playoffs. So far this season they have consistently struggled to rush the ball and have turned the ball over way too much. They've fumbled 9 times and thrown 11 interceptions and average turnover margin per game is -1. I just don't have faith in them compared to other teams near the bottom of the top 25.

I was going to say the same thing.

It's what Franklin did AFTER the UWW game that impressed me.

against / after same thing, right?

No

against = including the UWW game specifically

after = not including the UWW game (but all the games following that matchup)