D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[ExTartanPlayer]

Trinity has just shot up the rankings, which does surprise me.  That's the only team currently ranked ahead of IWU that I'd have an issue with, considering the SCAC's lack of recent playoff success (and that's NOT because they play UMHB in the first round every year, a myth that I debunked on the SCAC boards a few weeks ago).  Nonetheless, Trinity plays their undefeated conference compatriot Centre this week, and if they win, I think it would be safe to say that they've earned their ranking.

Because an 8-0 record, a defense ranked 11th overall and the fourth-ranked scoring defense isn't much of a reason, even after facing teams like Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon which were averaging 450-500 yards per game and putting boatloads of points on the board.      I think Centre is extremely underrated by this panel and the greater d3football.com poll, and whichever team wins on Saturday should be in the top 20 (lower half). 

BTW the last 3 Trinity playoff losses were to UMHB; it's just been a while since they were in the playoffs ('04, '05, '07).   And Pat seems to think that, should they win out, there's a very good chance they'll go again there this year.

I didn't say that Trinity isn't any good; however, I did imply that the overall weakness of the SCAC in recent years is a reason for my skepticism, and I stand by that.

Trinity's last three playoff losses were to UMHB.  However, more recently, the SCAC champion has been one-and-done every year from 2006-2010 (*incorrect, I just checked my old post and noted that Millsaps did win a game in 2008), with only one of those vs. UMHB (2007).  In the other four seasons, the SCAC champ was eliminated by a team that was summarily dismissed in the next round.  That leaves me with the conclusion that (with the possible exception of 2007 Trinity) the SCAC has not produced a bona fide national contender in at least five years.


Edited to add my old post from SCAC board:

"I don't think the SCAC has done much to distinguish itself in the last few years.  Some might argue that SCAC champ often gets stuck playing the ASC champ in the first round because of travel considerations, but that's an old-hat argument which isn't really borne out by recent history.

In 2010 the SCAC champ (DePauw) lost at home in the first round to Trine.
In 2009 the SCAC champ (DePauw again) lost in the first round to Thomas More.
In 2008 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) beat LaGrange, then lost to Wash & Jefferson.
In 2007 the SCAC champ (Trinity) was wiped out by UMHB.
In 2006 the SCAC champ (Millsaps) lost to Carnegie Mellon.

That's a 1-5 playoff record in the last five years, with the losses spread against five different teams (only one of which is a true national power, UMHB).  All but UMHB were summarily dismissed in the next round.  Unfortunately, that suggests to me that the SCAC is no better than an average D-3 conference at this point."

The above paragraph, then, justifies my skepticism for ranking any SCAC team, even one with a defense ranked 11th overall and the fourth-ranked scoring defense (side note, pointing out rankings and records without considering the caliber of the competition is a flawed strategy - earlier, someone argued that Endicott is for real because they have the #13 offense and #6 defense in the country).

You can point out Trinity's accomplishments against their SCAC brethren all you want, but the SCAC just isn't what it used to be.  Does that mean I don't think Trinity is ANY good?  No, of course not.  It does mean that I'm skeptical that Trinity deserves a top-15 ranking, ahead of schools with recent playoff success and better overall resumes.

[smedindy]

Now, can we not care about North Central's loss to Redlands?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Now, can we not care about North Central's loss to Redlands?

Except as a huge plus for Redlands.

The way NCC has been demolishing solid teams (and downright good teams in terms of IWU and Wheaton), they just might be the team that finally breaks the Big Two's stranglehold on Salem.  And if not this year, I believe most of their key players are underclassmen.

[wesleydad]

mr. ypsi, i was thinking the same thing.  ncc is just dominating good teams.  with the recent struggles for the big 2 maybe the gap is closing.  those of us who are fans of other teams certainly hope so, plus despite the fact that i like the folks i have met at the stagg bowl the last couple of years, i would really like to meet some new people or be cheering for wesley at the game.  ncc will certainly get a shot at one of them, likely in the quarters unless they ship mount east and leave uww in the west.

[smedindy]

The bottom 1/3 of my Top 25 is all just catty whompus. And I feel bad I couldn't add more teams in at 25a (Monmouth), 25b (Cortland), 25c (CWRU), 25d (Centre), 25e (Kean), etc.

[02 Warhawk]

Now, can we not care about North Central's loss to Redlands?

Except as a huge plus for Redlands.

The way NCC has been demolishing solid teams (and downright good teams in terms of IWU and Wheaton), they just might be the team that finally breaks the Big Two's stranglehold on Salem.  And if not this year, I believe most of their key players are underclassmen.

I, for one, don't want to see Whitewater play them....I'll worry about that matchup if and when it happens.

[02 Warhawk]

I'm glad that McMurry won...I was kind of looking forward to putting them in my top 25 for awhile now.

I plugged them in at 19th this week, after not ranking them last week.

[ExTartanPlayer]

The way NCC has been demolishing solid teams (and downright good teams in terms of IWU and Wheaton), they just might be the team that finally breaks the Big Two's stranglehold on Salem.  And if not this year, I believe most of their key players are underclassmen.

With all due respect to the fine programs at Mount Union and UWW...I would love to see some new blood in the Stagg this year.

Obviously this memory predates the Purple Power stranglehold, but I recall reading this story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031007/index.htm) about St. John's triumphing over Mount Union back in 2003 - I was a senior in high school at the time, heading to Carnegie Mellon the next year - and just getting goosebumps about how exciting that must have been for the SJU players during the 100-yard interception return that sealed the game.

I'd love to see somebody pull the David-over-Goliath upset this year and restore a little more balance to Division III.  It would be especially cool if NCC did it, in part because NCC did lose to someone ELSE this year, and that might show that the talent is diffusing a little more evenly throughout the Division.

[emma17]

I find the Gap subject interesting because I think it's different for each team.
 
I do think the talent gaps are slowly closing.  However, I don't think the next step/final step to closing the gap is as much about talent dispersement as it is other things.  I also think the Mt gap has differences from the UWW gap.  I'll end it here otherwise this will end up as a long and boring attempt to explain myself.

Once the playoffs begin, I would not be surprised to see both UWW and Mt playing at a different level than they have in the regular season.   

[bleedpurple]

Now, can we not care about North Central's loss to Redlands?

Except as a huge plus for Redlands.

The way NCC has been demolishing solid teams (and downright good teams in terms of IWU and Wheaton), they just might be the team that finally breaks the Big Two's stranglehold on Salem.  And if not this year, I believe most of their key players are underclassmen.

I, for one, don't want to see Whitewater play them....I'll worry about that matchup if and when it happens.

OF COURSE you will 02! 

Truthfully, most UW-W posters probably feel the same way, which is quite contrary to the REP of UW-W posters advanced by a few who generalize all of us of being arrogant or cocky (My posts have probably contributed as much to the negative stereotype as anyone's).   From what I've observed, UW-W has very few, if any, over-confident posters. However, lacking confidence (especially in UW-W football) has never been my downfall, so......

I do want UW-W to play North Central.  Last year's game was a great game and this year's game would be a great game, too.  And it will go to the fourth quarter. And that's the quarter it comes down to the playmakers, doesn't it? UW-W doesn't have any shortage of them.

I will say that I am a bit conflicted because I also want UW-W to play Mount.  But I agree with the posters on the CCIW board who say they would love to see a Mount/NCC matchup.    While I think NCC would have a great shot against Mount, I am not convinced NCC would beat Mount or would have beaten them last year.  I have learned to be very careful not to put someone in that type of category with the Purple Powers until they have "done it".  NCC was given a #1 seed and couldn't take out UW-W at home last year. Now they have a freshman QB, a loss to Redlands, and a conference that hasn't even tested them.  Are they a good team? Yes. COULD they beat UWW? Of course. Do they worry me? Not a bit.   

[02 Warhawk]

Now, can we not care about North Central's loss to Redlands?

Except as a huge plus for Redlands.

The way NCC has been demolishing solid teams (and downright good teams in terms of IWU and Wheaton), they just might be the team that finally breaks the Big Two's stranglehold on Salem.  And if not this year, I believe most of their key players are underclassmen.

I, for one, don't want to see Whitewater play them....I'll worry about that matchup if and when it happens.

OF COURSE you will 02! 

Truthfully, most UW-W posters probably feel the same way, which is quite contrary to the REP of UW-W posters advanced by a few who generalize all of us of being arrogant or cocky (My posts have probably contributed as much to the negative stereotype as anyone's).   From what I've observed, UW-W has very few, if any, over-confident posters. However, lacking confidence (especially in UW-W football) has never been my downfall, so......

I do want UW-W to play North Central.  Last year's game was a great game and this year's game would be a great game, too.  And it will go to the fourth quarter. And that's the quarter it comes down to the playmakers, doesn't it? UW-W doesn't have any shortage of them.

I will say that I am a bit conflicted because I also want UW-W to play Mount.  But I agree with the posters on the CCIW board who say they would love to see a Mount/NCC matchup.    While I think NCC would have a great shot against Mount, I am not convinced NCC would beat Mount or would have beaten them last year.  I have learned to be very careful not to put someone in that type of category with the Purple Powers until they have "done it".  NCC was given a #1 seed and couldn't take out UW-W at home last year. Now they have a freshman QB, a loss to Redlands, and a conference that hasn't even tested them.  Are they a good team? Yes. COULD they beat UWW? Of course. Do they worry me? Not a bit. 

Similar conversations about how NCC compares to Mount and UWW this year is going on in the CCIW board. I'm sure they would have a few opinions about this statement.

[retagent]

Funny how little talk there is about the #3 ranked team. I guess the MIAC is just too soft a conference to get any props.

[smedindy]

Then there's St. Thomas, who is very much an emerging power - they've given up just 27 points in their last six games after Concordia - Moorhead dropped 30 on them (but gave up 48).

I wouldn't overlook them to nose their way into the Purple Two, and they're Purple as well.

[retagent]

Wow, great minds, eh smed?

[smedindy]

Yep. Just have a feeling about this St. Thomas team.