D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[smedindy]

I think you are too stingy with 'great' - that's why I use ELITE. And it really should only apply to THIS YEAR THIS TEAM.

Denison was a good football team this year. So was DePauw. North Central was only good this year, not great. Wheaton was great. Albion was on the cusp of good to great.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

Sure I'm stingy with "good", "great", and "elite".  Beating the PAC champion doesn't automatically make you a "great" team.  However, beating St Thomas sure would (or even keeping it a 2 score game).

[ExTartanPlayer]

Sure I'm stingy with "good", "great", and "elite".  Beating the PAC champion doesn't automatically make you a "great" team.  However, beating St Thomas sure would (or even keeping it a 2 score game).

Designations aside, I'm curious: where, precisely, would you rank Thomas More, Wabash, and Johns Hopkins?  Someone has to be ranked in that 7-8-9 range beneath Mount, UWW, Linfield, UMHB, and the other acknowledged top dogs.  If the criticism is that those three would not stay close with #1, 2, 3, and so on...well, nobody else does, either, outside of that top grouping.  Mount Union's closest conference game was a 36-3 win over John Carroll.  St. Thomas' closest games were 35-14 and 38-19 against St. John's (and a maybe-kinda-competitive 38-14 win over Concordia which was 28-14 at the start of the fourth quarter).  UW-Oshkosh killed everybody except for Whitewater and Stevens Point.  Linfield killed everyone they played, period.  It's not like the OAC / MIAC / WIAC / NWC are teeming with squads that take their power champions to the limit.  If Whitworth had lost by 3 to Linfield, or Bethel and Concordia-Moorhead were taking St. John's and St. Thomas to the wire (which does happen in some years; the MIAC has definitely had seasons where it went four deep with really, really good teams) then I'd see the point that Wabash / TMC / JHU were (maybe) over-ranked and ought to be down lower behind those Billy Badass runners-up that just had the misfortune of being in (Power Team X's) conference. 

Using the season-ending poll with Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More lined up at 7-8-9, who are you vaulting ahead of them with any certainty?

The next six teams are:

10. St. John's 
11. Wesley
12. Hardin-Simmons
13. UMHB
14. UW-Platteville
15. North Central

I think you can make an argument that these teams might be better than Wabash, Hopkins, Thomas More (and obviously now that Wesley and Hopkins met in the playoffs, Hopkins would be moved lower) but I don't think it's a total slam dunk, and once we get past 15 there's a pretty clear drop-off.  So maybe a team like Johns Hopkins should be ranked, like, 13th instead of 8th in the final poll?  The ranking was pretty defensible when the playoffs started.  That's kinda why we have the playoffs, to figure out where these teams belong. 

If Wabash loses, say, 35-14 to St. Thomas...that's exactly what St. John's did the first time they played, and St. John's is the next team down on the list.  There's not exactly a lineup of teams sitting in that 10-15 spot who are going to be clearly better / more competitive with the top 6.

[retagent]

My Poll would look something like this, with slight adjustments depending on the next two weeks outcomes.


       1.) Mt Union
      1A.) St Thomas
       3.) Linfield
      3A.) UWW
       5.) UWO
       6.) UMHB
       7.) Wesley
       8.) St John's
       9.) Wabash
      10.) Take your pick of JHU, Thomas More, Whitworth, HSU

[Schwami]

Wheaton belongs in there somewhere.

[retagent]

You are correct sir. They slipped my mind. I revise and put them at #9, and drop Wabash to #10. That makes it a lot neater.

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

[PurpleTide]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

I guess it is time for you to adjust.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

I guess it is time for you to adjust.

Indeed.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

I guess it is time for you to adjust.

Indeed.

In fairness, he DID say (for the first two) 'until proven otherwise'!  I'd say today provided some pretty conclusive proof (same for 3 and 4).  I'm not even going to begin ranking teams until after the Stagg because how that game goes affects practically everyone in the top 10-15 slots!

[ExTartanPlayer]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

I guess it is time for you to adjust.

Indeed.

In fairness, he DID say (for the first two) 'until proven otherwise'!  I'd say today provided some pretty conclusive proof (same for 3 and 4).  I'm not even going to begin ranking teams until after the Stagg because how that game goes affects practically everyone in the top 10-15 slots!

Oh, it's not just about the first two. 

walla walla has been ripping on Wabash, Thomas More, and Johns Hopkins as being pretenders all season.  Today's results, if anything, should work to give each of those teams a little credit relative to their peers.

Presumably, walla walla's rationale for slipping Wabash down to #12 was the lopsided loss to St. Thomas.  By proxy, Thomas More has been dropped to #14 in the walla walla rankings because they lost to Wabash.  Except that now we've seen Linfield also get crushed by St. Thomas, so maybe it's just that St. Thomas is a lot better than everyone this year?  St. Thomas hammering Linfield today definitely suggests that this transitive "St. Thomas blasted Wabash -> ergo Wabash and Thomas More can't be top 10 teams" train of thought is, at least, questionable.  Unless we're also ready to toss Linfield from the pile.

Next, the case of Johns Hopkins.  walla walla stated before the quarterfinals that how Wesley showed against Mount Union would influence his ranking of JHU, for JHU played Wesley quite competitively.  Wesley then gave Mount a brief scare with a wild second-half stretch before falling; now that Mount dispatched Whitewater even more easily than Wesley (we can certainly argue degrees of defeat, but it's pretty hard to state that UWW was any better in Alliance than Wesley was) somehow I doubt any credit for this will trickle down to Johns Hopkins, although it probably should. 

Since this last thought will no doubt be misunderstood - I don't think it's a slam dunk that any of the three are top-10 teams, but nor do I think we should be so dismissive of the possibility that Hopkins, Wabash, and Thomas More might actually be top-10 teams.  They acquitted themselves just fine (or just as well as other teams that have the golden pass) in the playoffs.

I'm also curious to see what this means for Wesley's ranking relative to UWW, UWO, and Wheaton.  All previously named ahead of Wesley in walla walla's ranking.  Do they stay there, or does Wesley get past any of them after posting a somewhat more competitive loss vs. Mount than UWW did?

(I don't think there's really a clear answer here, I'm curious to see where those teams will end up in the final polls)

[Mr. Ypsi]

^^^Oh, I know of walla walla's past posts, and knew you were referring to more than JUST his latest.  That's why I said I wouldn't even attempt to begin ranking teams 'til after the Stagg.  If the game is a total walkover by either team, it affects all sorts of teams down below.  If (as I expect) it is a well-contested game, the rankings will stay about where they currently are in my head.  Today's games have already somewhat raised Wesley (and thus JHU) and SJU and Wabash (and thus TM) in my mind, and lowered UMHB, UWO and Wheaton; no DRASTIC changes (they'll all no doubt end up in my top 12-15), but perhaps a slot or two.

  This would be so much easier if football teams played as many games as basketball teams!   (Or maybe it would be even harder as you get more cases of A beat B who beat C who beat A! )

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

This would be so much easier if football teams played as many games as basketball teams!   (Or maybe it would be even harder as you get more cases of A beat B who beat C who beat A! )

I say start the season at the normal time... then every team plays one game a day until they've played all 240ish teams. Should get done in time for the end of the school year

[Ralph Turner]

This would be so much easier if football teams played as many games as basketball teams!   (Or maybe it would be even harder as you get more cases of A beat B who beat C who beat A! )

I say start the season at the normal time... then every team plays one game a day until they've played all 240ish teams. Should get done in time for the end of the school year

+1!

Or in the immortal words of Ernie Banks, Mr Cub, "Let's play two."

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

I was asked how I would rank the Top teams - specifically Wabash, JHU, and Thomas More.  I'm going to stick to my earlier ranking process:

#1 UWW until proven otherwise
#2 MUC until proven otherwise
#3 Linfield
#4 St Thomas
#5 MHB
#6 UWO
#7 Wheaton
#8 Wesley
#9 St Johns
#10 UWP
#11 Hardin Simmons
#12 Wabash
#13 North Central
#14 JHU
#15 Thomas More

I'll adjust these after the semi's if need be.

Adjustments are in order!

#1 Mount Union - Until proven otherwise
#2 St Thomas - hate to see a healthy #23 behind that line!
#3 Linfield - Caveat is with a 100% healthy Sam Riddle... otherwise maybe #5
#4 UWW - Made it thru to the semis in a very tough bracket
#5 UWO - lost by 2 to a semifinalist
#6 MHB - Not much difference between them and Linfield
#7 Wabash - Impressive D to hold that Tommie running attack in check
#8 Wesley - Impressive O to score that many against MUC
#9 St Johns - Been the toughest out so far in 2015 for the Tommies - familiarity helps
#10 Thomas More
#11 Wheaton
#12 JHU - They were very competitive with Wesley and Wesley scored a bunch on MUC... Wesley's familiarity with MUC helps as I doubt that JHU does as well in Alliance
#13 UWP
#14 Hardin Simmons
#15 North Central