D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[MUC57]

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

[Oline89]

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union. 

[wally_wabash]

Emphasis mine...

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union.

I don't know if this point is ever- and I mean ever- going to land, but it's worth making repeatedly on the off chance that it will.  The other regions that are really "hard" appear so because they've each been dominated by basically one team.  Mnus those ultra-dominators, the regions are much more level than folks are willing to realize. 

[MUC57]

Online89 and Wally Wabash

I hereby formally retract my earlier statement that the East is not good. I hate to restate that because I'd probably screw up that comment. Gonna go now! ❓ 😳

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

The East is good, just not great. Removing the top few teams from every region, the east is just as good as the others. The problem is they haven't had that top team that could beat a Mount Union or Wesley (before they became an east team) and geographically they can't get spread out in the bracket which means every year they beat up on each other then get a poor showing against the top team from another region and it makes the whole region seem weak.
There were 7 teams from the North in the tournament this year. 3 of them played teams from other regions in the first round (2 at home) and lost them all. North Central had a shot at a team from another region and lost at home in the 2nd round. If it wasn't for Mount Union we'd be talking about how dreadful the North is.
The East is never going to have that opportunity to prove themselves against other regions in the early rounds.

[Ralph Turner]

The East is good, just not great. Removing the top few teams from every region, the east is just as good as the others. The problem is they haven't had that top team that could beat a Mount Union or Wesley (before they became an east team) and geographically they can't get spread out in the bracket which means every year they beat up on each other then get a poor showing against the top team from another region and it makes the whole region seem weak.
There were 7 teams from the North in the tournament this year. 3 of them played teams from other regions in the first round (2 at home) and lost them all. North Central had a shot at a team from another region and lost at home in the 2nd round. If it wasn't for Mount Union we'd be talking about how dreadful the North is.
The East is never going to have that opportunity to prove themselves against other regions in the early rounds.

In some ways, I believe we can grasp an idea of the strength of the East versus everyone else.

We have 20 years since the creation of the Pool system. An off-season task would be to look at those games to identify the trend.

The MAC and the ACFC teams have been South Region in that time, so that needs to be considered.

[Oline89]

Emphasis mine...

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union.

I don't know if this point is ever- and I mean ever- going to land, but it's worth making repeatedly on the off chance that it will.  The other regions that are really "hard" appear so because they've each been dominated by basically one team.  Mnus those ultra-dominators, the regions are much more level than folks are willing to realize.

+K Wally, nice to see that someone with national D3 knowledge, feels similarly 

[emma17]

I don't think of the East as "weak", but I also don't think it's as simple as saying if the other regions weren't dominated by one team the regions would be equally competitive.
The West has had a 6 time champ in UWW, but it also had a UWO in the Semis and Stagg- and was competitive w both UMHB and Mt. It also has St T that played in two Stagg Bowls. We will see what happens w the Johnnies Saturday but they sure have caught the eye of the D3 world. The South mostly has UMHB, but many seem to feel HSU is just below elite level. Sure Mt dominates the North, but you had Wheaton play an excellent game vs UMHB recently and NCC was seconds away from beating Mt in the semis not long ago.
The East needs some success stories like the above.

[hazzben]

Emphasis mine...

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union.

I don't know if this point is ever- and I mean ever- going to land, but it's worth making repeatedly on the off chance that it will.  The other regions that are really "hard" appear so because they've each been dominated by basically one team.  Mnus those ultra-dominators, the regions are much more level than folks are willing to realize.

I think the East lacks not just Elite (aka purple powers), but also very good/great teams year over year.

The North & West in particular produce teams that are really very good, semi-final and even Stagg worthy. Some recent playoff examples: Wheaton, NCC, UST, UWO, Wartburg, Linfield, Bethel, etc.

Yes, the East doesn't have a Purple Power. But they also fail to produce teams that can even push those teams. It's not just a lack of a single elite team, but an apparent lack of the very, very good variety. At least in the D3.com era.

There are good teams in the East. But I can't remember a year when the #2 or #3 team from the North or West didn't look like they could have handled the East bracket and won their way to a Semifinal appearance.

[MRMIKESMITH]

Emphasis mine...

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union.

I don't know if this point is ever- and I mean ever- going to land, but it's worth making repeatedly on the off chance that it will.  The other regions that are really "hard" appear so because they've each been dominated by basically one team.  Mnus those ultra-dominators, the regions are much more level than folks are willing to realize.

I think the East lacks not just Elite (aka purple powers), but also very good/great teams year over year.

The North & West in particular produce teams that are really very good, semi-final and even Stagg worthy. Some recent playoff examples: Wheaton, NCC, UST, UWO, Wartburg, Linfield, Bethel, etc.

Yes, the East doesn't have a Purple Power. But they also fail to produce teams that can even push those teams. It's not just a lack of a single elite team, but an apparent lack of the very, very good variety. At least in the D3.com era.

There are good teams in the East. But I can't remember a year when the #2 or #3 team from the North or West didn't look like they could have handled the East bracket and won their way to a Semifinal appearance.

I disagree with that...

[wally_wabash]

There are good teams in the East. But I can't remember a year when the #2 or #3 team from the North or West didn't look like they could have handled the East bracket and won their way to a Semifinal appearance.

Don't forget Hardin-Simmons.  Hardin-Simmons would probably be an annual finalist if they didn't get jammed by those cheapskates at the NCAA!   

[MUC57]

Several years back, John Carroll "went east", won all three games then played Mount in the semis. That's one example. To say the East is not good does NOT imply there are no good teams in thr East. I just feel that overall, the region does not match up to the other 3 regions. This has been talked about for years. I wasn't the first to bring it up. I can't find the evidence that says, overall, the regions are on an equal level. If it exists, fine. I am open to revising my opinion. But, of course, who cares what I think!
Yes, each region has it's dominate team. The East has NO dominate team. Brockport, number one in the region, couldn't even get out of its bracket. How many times did Mount get sent east because no one in the east qualified as a number one. Of course, some east teams get beat by other east teams. But that happens all over the country. And yet, certain teams survive to go deep in the playoffs.
That's just my rambling. Maybe not very eloquent but my opinion! 😃 ❗️

I'm done with this issue. As I said above, it's been talked about for years. If the East does better, we'll all notice. No further discussion will be necessary. 😃

[Ralph Turner]

Emphasis mine...

Ralph

HSU probably wins the East. The East is, er, the East is, the East is NOT GOOD! My 2 cents.

MUC,
You live in an interesting world, being a a Mt Union fan.  I really can not think of another comparison in modern day sports, other than maybe UConn Women's Basketball.  Starting every season knowing that the only competitive game may occur in week 15 is some rarefied air.  To call the East, "NOT GOOD" is not fair.  The second place team in the OAC, lost to Randolph Macon, who then lost to Muhlenberg.  I saw the  RM-MU in person this weekend, there are 10 teams in the East that could easily compete with either of those teams.  My point is this, the East is not weak, it just isn't the Mount Union dominated North, the UMHB dominated South or the UWW dominated West.  Perenially, there are 5-6 excellent teams in the East, all have a chance to make the Elite 8.  But we don't (nor do I think we will in the near future) have anything resembling Mt Union.

I don't know if this point is ever- and I mean ever- going to land, but it's worth making repeatedly on the off chance that it will.  The other regions that are really "hard" appear so because they've each been dominated by basically one team.  Mnus those ultra-dominators, the regions are much more level than folks are willing to realize.

+K Wally, nice to see that someone with national D3 knowledge, feels similarly

Here is some perspective about UMHB and the ASC being dominant in the South. 

Here is list of all of the games that the ASC teams have played since its first bid in 1999.

I just hope that the bracket has the chance for UMHB or HSU (or both) to meet Berry.  Now that Wesley is gone, UMHB seems to be sent West.

It has been a long time since the ASC has played a team from Eastern Time zone of the South Region.

Here are ASC opponents from the South Region in the post season. (Partial listing of other games.)
2018 UMHB - HSU 27-6; Berry 75-9
         HSU - Loss to UMHB
2017 UMHB - None; HSU None
         HSU   -  Loss at Linfield 13-27
2016 UMHB - None: HSU None  UMHB beat Redlands by 22, Linfield by 17,  Wheaton IL by 22,  UMU  by 2, and UW-O by 3
         HSU  -  Loss at Linfield 10-24
2015 UMHB - HSU round 1; Huntingdon round 2
         HSU  --- loss to UMHB
2014 UMHB - TLU (SCAC - Pool B) round 1
2013 UMHB - None
2012 UMHB - Louisiana College round 1; Wesley round 3 (W)
        LaColl -  Loss at UMHB
2011 UMHB - McMurry round 2; Wesley round 3 (L);
         McM      McMurry Trinity (W); Loss at UMHB
2010 UMHB - CNU (59-7) Thomas More (69-7) Wesley (9-19)
2009 UMHB - None
        Miss Coll Huntingdon 56-35; - round 2 Wesley 9-43
2008 UMHB - HSU 38-35; round 2 Wesley 46-14; Round 3 W&J 63-7
                    HSU Loss to UMHB in round 1
2007 UMHB - Trinity TX 52-23; round 2 NCWC 64-0; round 3 Wesley 27-10
2006 UMHB - HSU 33-21; W&J 30-27; Wesley 20-34
2005 UMHB - Trinity 35-6; Wesley 36-46
2004 UMHB - Trinity 32-13; HSU 42-28; W&J 52-16 (won at UMU; loss to Linfield in the Stagg)
                  - HSU bye first round
2003 ETBU - Trinity 42-41; Lycoming 7-13
2002 UMHB - Trinity 38-48  (Stagg finalist)
2001 HSU    - loss at Wittenberg 35-38
2000 HSU    - McDaniel 32-10; Trinity TX 33-30
1999 HSU   - WashUStL 28-21; W&J 51-3; Trinity TX (loss 33-40)

Look at the opponents:

No games against the ODAC.
One game against the MAC (Lycoming in 2003), back in the day.
One game against the Centennial (McDaniel in 2000)
One game against WashStL in 1999, back in the day.
One game against the SAA, Berry, this year.
Five wins against the PAC (W&J 51-3 in 1999; 52-16 in 2004; 30-27 in 2006; 63-7 in 2008; Thomas More 69-7 in 2010)
Nine games against the old SCAC teams (7-2 record).
Three games against the USA South (3-0).

Wesley was the only South Region team to stymie the ASC consistently, with 5 wins against 3 losses.

The ASC has been sent to the West Region in later rounds frequently.

[smedindy]

The regions are kind of artificial constructs anyway, since teams bounce around based on the whim of the bracket makers and when teams switch conferences they switch regions in many cases.

Case Western didn't move to Cleveland, TN when it moved to the South region.

So saying the East is 'weak' is a generalization that may not be true depending on who is in the "East" bracket (not that they'd call it that). It seems the regions are just truly useful in the criteria Pool "C" bids, and that's really it.

In D-2, regions are everything and teams from the same conferences play each other all of the time in championships.

[bleedpurple]

OK, time to settle this Alternate Universe style. lol  We will have a Regional Ranking Challenge.  Since the East Region is on trial, they will participate in three separate 10 game Regional Ranking Challenges. One against each of the other regions.  All games will be played at Wrigley Field (neutral site for Massey purposes).  First up EAST VS SOUTH!

EAST VS SOUTH

10 V 10  Salisbury vs Maryville ...and the East starts strong as Salisbury downs Maryville 13-7.  East Region is 1-0!
9 v 9  Western New England vs Case Western Reserve...Case evens things up in the challenge, downing WNE  34-20.  1-1
8 v 8  Framingham State vs first round darling Randolph Macon...Yellow Jackets show up again! 50-20 blowout. South up 2-1
7 v 7  Stevenson takes on Washington and Jefferson...Wash and Jeff does the South proud 27-14  South up 3-1
6 v 6   MIT vs Muhlenberg ...the Mules leave no doubt  30-7.  South up 4-1
5 v 5   Ithaca vs Centre....Centre follows the Mules lead and wins by same score 30-7.  South up 5-1
4 v 4   Delaware Valley vs Berry...Del Val says "Not so fast" and gets the upset 42-38.  South up 5-2
3 v 3   RPI vs Hardin Simmons...Cowboys have waited for this chance. And take advantage of it. HSU 38-28  South up 6-2
2 v 2   Frostburg St vs Johns Hopkins...Hopkins wins a shootout, 45-37.  South up 7-2
1 v 1  UMHB vs Brockport  The CRU seals the deal  42-21.    South wins the challenge 8-2

First challenge didn't go well for the East, but there are two left!