D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[hazzben]

Ha! On IWU vote. Been there. And I get IWU at 25. I think they will prove that out by year’s end. I just couldn’t wrap my mind around 13, up from 14 after a loss. Makes sense now. Carry on friends!! Appreciate your work on the poll. Wish I had the time to participate myself.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

D3 Football Map


2019 WEEK 4 TOP 25 FAN POLL

Rank	Team	Points	Prev
1)	Mary Hardin-Baylor (5)	196	1
2)	Mount Union (3)	195	2
3)	UW-Whitewater	179	3
4)	St John's	175	5
5)	North Central	172	4
6)	Hardin-Simmons	158	7
7)	Muhlenberg	147	8
T8)	Bethel	138	9
T8)	Wheaton	138	10
10)	Wesley	125	11
11)	Berry	123	12
12)	UW-La Crosse	90	14
13)	Delaware Valley	88	19
14)	Ithaca	79	16
15)	Redlands	71	T17
16)	Salisbury	67	T17
T17)	St Thomas	64	6
T17)	Susquehanna	64	15
19)	Hobart	60	21
20)	John Carroll	51	13
21)	Wartburg	50	22
22)	Johns Hopkins	42	20
23)	Chapman	30	23
24)	Whitworth	28	24
25)	Linfield	22	25

Dropped Out: None

Also Receiving Votes: Carnegie Mellon 9, WPI 7, Bridgewater 6, Trine 6, Illinois Wesleyan 5, Cortland 4, Baldwin Wallace 3, Washington & Jefferson 3, Wittenberg 3, Case Western Reserve 1, Randolph-Macon 1

Voters: 02 Warhawk, bluestreak66, desertcat1, FCGG, MANDGSU, NCF, Oline89, and smedindy

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

  1)   Mary Hardin-Baylor   196     ( 1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  2,  2,  3)
  2)   Mount Union          195     ( 1,  1,  1,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2)
  3)   UW-Whitewater        179     ( 3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  5)
  4)   St John's            175     ( 3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  5,  6)
  5)   North Central        172     ( 2,  3,  4,  5,  5,  5,  5,  7)
  6)   Hardin-Simmons       158     ( 5,  6,  6,  6,  6,  7,  7,  7)
  7)   Muhlenberg           147     ( 6,  7,  7,  8,  8,  8,  8,  9)
T8)   Bethel               138     ( 5,  6,  7,  8,  8,  9,  9, 18)
T8)   Wheaton              138     ( 6,  7,  8,  8,  9, 10, 11, 11)
10)   Wesley               125     ( 9,  9, 10, 10, 10, 11, 12, 12)
11)   Berry                123     ( 9,  9, 10, 10, 10, 11, 12, 14)
12)   UW-La Crosse          90     (11, 13, 14, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
13)   Delaware Valley       88     (12, 12, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, --)
14)   Ithaca                79     (10, 12, 13, 13, 17, 17, 23, 24)
15)   Redlands              71     (13, 14, 17, 17, 17, 19, 20, 20)
16)   Salisbury             67     (13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 21, 22, 22)
T17)   St Thomas             64     (13, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
T17)   Susquehanna           64     (11, 14, 15, 16, 18, 21, 23, --)
19)   Hobart                60     (11, 14, 17, 19, 21, 21, 22, 23)
20)   John Carroll          51     (11, 16, 18, 20, 20, 22, 24, --)
21)   Wartburg              50     (12, 15, 15, 20, 22, 22, --, --)
22)   Johns Hopkins         42     (13, 16, 19, 19, 21, --, --, --)
23)   Chapman               30     (15, 19, 20, 21, 25, --, --, --)
24)   Whitworth             28     (16, 19, 22, 23, 24, 24, --, --)
25)   Linfield              22     (18, 18, 23, 24, 25, --, --, --)

26)   Carnegie Mellon        9     (17)
27)   WPI                    7     (19)
T28)   Bridgewater            6     (20)
T28)   Trine                  6     (24, 24, 25, 25)
30)   Illinois Wesleyan      5     (21)
31)   Cortland               4     (24, 25, 25)
T32)   Baldwin Wallace        3     (23)
T32)   Wash & Jeff            3     (23)
T32)   Wittenberg             3     (23)
T35)   Case Western Reserve   1     (25)
T35)   Randolph-Macon         1     (25)

[Captainred81]

I like what you've done with this fan pole.  I agree on many points made in previous points.  I'm fairly skeptical on a few teams out there, and not sure where I would put them in the pole.  There have been some close wins by teams that I thought shouldn't have been close, and some other teams blowing out lesser competition as usual.  I definitely think that some teams get ranked a bit higher because of the conference that they're in and they would be expected to beat the vast majority of D3 because of that.  Right now, I think Linfield and Whitworth are benefiting from their past, and their conference. 

I'm always skeptical about Hardin Simmons.  It's not their fault, but they lose every year to UMHB, and sometimes twice (except 2015).  And those losses are their only losses.  They did play a couple of play-off games against Linfield in the past on the road and at home, and lost both.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, who have they beat to justify their ranking.  Is it just because they kind of hang in there with UMHB, and the expectation is that they would also hang in there with or beat any other top 10 team?  This is one where I just don't know what to do with.  They're obviously a good team, but the question is how good, are they top 10?  We might never know.

Lastly, John Carroll is definitely benefiting from being in the OAC and playing Mount every year.  This year I think they should be on the brink of falling out of the top 25.  The defense is for real, but their offense is shaky at best.  I suspect if they happen to finish 9-1 (I don't think they will) and they get the nod for the playoffs, they will lose the first round game again. 

Also, I dreamt last night that Mount had to play UMHB at Belton in the semis.  Not sure what they means.  The dream didn't last long enough to show who won the game either...

[MRMIKESMITH]

I like what you've done with this fan pole.  I agree on many points made in previous points.  I'm fairly skeptical on a few teams out there, and not sure where I would put them in the pole.  There have been some close wins by teams that I thought shouldn't have been close, and some other teams blowing out lesser competition as usual.  I definitely think that some teams get ranked a bit higher because of the conference that they're in and they would be expected to beat the vast majority of D3 because of that.  Right now, I think Linfield and Whitworth are benefiting from their past, and their conference. 

I'm always skeptical about Hardin Simmons.  It's not their fault, but they lose every year to UMHB, and sometimes twice (except 2015).  And those losses are their only losses.  They did play a couple of play-off games against Linfield in the past on the road and at home, and lost both.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, who have they beat to justify their ranking.  Is it just because they kind of hang in there with UMHB, and the expectation is that they would also hang in there with or beat any other top 10 team?  This is one where I just don't know what to do with.  They're obviously a good team, but the question is how good, are they top 10?  We might never know.

Lastly, John Carroll is definitely benefiting from being in the OAC and playing Mount every year.  This year I think they should be on the brink of falling out of the top 25.  The defense is for real, but their offense is shaky at best.  I suspect if they happen to finish 9-1 (I don't think they will) and they get the nod for the playoffs, they will lose the first round game again. 

Also, I dreamt last night that Mount had to play UMHB at Belton in the semis.  Not sure what they means.  The dream didn't last long enough to show who won the game either...

With only 3 to 4 games being played, I think at this point poll positions past the Top 4 are really subjective. Honestly, I think their are multiple teams that could flip flop between 10-25. I honestly think that Hardin-Simmons and Linfield could be any team from Hardin-Simmons to Whitworth. Obviously some teams have already played each other, so I'd expect that team to be rank higher with all other data points being equal.

[Ralph Turner]

My frustration with the playoffs is that the ASC gets sent "West" instead of back into the South for playoff games beyond the first round, with exceptions when they matched up with the strong Coach Drass Wesley teams in the previous 10 years.

Frequently, the playoff losses to UMHB by everyone else in the South Region have been "monkey-stomps". In fact, the ASC has never played a Centennial team in the playoffs.  Losing to Linfield most years is no slouch.

[MRMIKESMITH]

My frustration with the playoffs is that the ASC gets sent "West" instead of back into the South for playoff games beyond the first round, with exceptions when they matched up with the strong Coach Drass Wesley teams in the previous 10 years.

Frequently, the playoff losses to UMHB by everyone else in the South Region have been "monkey-stomps". In fact, the ASC has never played a Centennial team in the playoffs.  Losing to Linfield most years is no slouch.

Hardin-Simmons since 2000 has played UW-Whitewater (2W), WASH-U (1W), W&J (1W), McDaniel (1W), St. Johns (1L), Wittenberg (1L), UW-Stout (1L), UW-SP (2W), Linfield (2W, 6L), UW-Lacrosse (1W, 1L), Whitworth (2W), COE (1W), Willamette (1W, 2L).

Granted most of these match-ups with the exception of the playoff matchups against the NWC, most of the matchups were during the season in the early to mid 2000's against some of the WIAC schools. The two Mid-Atlantic matchups were before the expansion. I think there only opportunity would be to look for some of those conferences with 3 open dates, otherwise I think it is the CC (Johns Hopkins) approach, you play your schedule and if you get to the playoffs you have to win against opponents like UMHB and Linfield anyway, you just have to do it. Being such a outlier in TX has its budget constraints, but maybe finding matchups with NJAC, E8 teams or USAC that have openings.

[Ralph Turner]

My frustration with the playoffs is that the ASC gets sent "West" instead of back into the South for playoff games beyond the first round, with exceptions when they matched up with the strong Coach Drass Wesley teams in the previous 10 years.

Frequently, the playoff losses to UMHB by everyone else in the South Region have been "monkey-stomps". In fact, the ASC has never played a Centennial team in the playoffs.  Losing to Linfield most years is no slouch.

Hardin-Simmons since 2000 has played UW-Whitewater (2W), WASH-U (1W), W&J (1W), McDaniel (1W), St. Johns (1L), Wittenberg (1L), UW-Stout (1L), UW-SP (2W), Linfield (2W, 6L), UW-Lacrosse (1W, 1L), Whitworth (2W), COE (1W), Willamette (1W, 2L).

Granted most of these match-ups with the exception of the playoff matchups against the NWC, most of the matchups were during the season in the early to mid 2000's against some of the WIAC schools. The two Mid-Atlantic matchups were before the expansion. I think there only opportunity would be to look for some of those conferences with 3 open dates, otherwise I think it is the CC (Johns Hopkins) approach, you play your schedule and if you get to the playoffs you have to win against opponents like UMHB and Linfield anyway, you just have to do it. Being such a outlier in TX has its budget constraints, but maybe finding matchups with NJAC, E8 teams or USAC that have openings.

Thanks for the response.

My thought about HSU catching a Linfield or UMHB in the first round is that it is comparable to a #3 or #4 seed playing a #1, or #2 or #3 seed in the first round of the playoffs.

In fact, most years, the SCIAC is a #6, #7, or a #8.
A Huntingdon may be a #6 or #7.
There may be lower seeds in the West Region around Minnesota or Iowa some years, but the road to the Stagg Bowl is tough for everyone west of the 87th longitude.

[MRMIKESMITH]

My frustration with the playoffs is that the ASC gets sent "West" instead of back into the South for playoff games beyond the first round, with exceptions when they matched up with the strong Coach Drass Wesley teams in the previous 10 years.

Frequently, the playoff losses to UMHB by everyone else in the South Region have been "monkey-stomps". In fact, the ASC has never played a Centennial team in the playoffs.  Losing to Linfield most years is no slouch.

Hardin-Simmons since 2000 has played UW-Whitewater (2W), WASH-U (1W), W&J (1W), McDaniel (1W), St. Johns (1L), Wittenberg (1L), UW-Stout (1L), UW-SP (2W), Linfield (2W, 6L), UW-Lacrosse (1W, 1L), Whitworth (2W), COE (1W), Willamette (1W, 2L).

Granted most of these match-ups with the exception of the playoff matchups against the NWC, most of the matchups were during the season in the early to mid 2000's against some of the WIAC schools. The two Mid-Atlantic matchups were before the expansion. I think there only opportunity would be to look for some of those conferences with 3 open dates, otherwise I think it is the CC (Johns Hopkins) approach, you play your schedule and if you get to the playoffs you have to win against opponents like UMHB and Linfield anyway, you just have to do it. Being such a outlier in TX has its budget constraints, but maybe finding matchups with NJAC, E8 teams or USAC that have openings.

Thanks for the response.

My thought about HSU catching a Linfield or UMHB in the first round is that it is comparable to a #3 or #4 seed playing a #1, or #2 or #3 seed in the first round of the playoffs.

In fact, most years, the SCIAC is a #6, #7, or a #8.
A Huntingdon may be a #6 or #7.
There may be lower seeds in the West Region around Minnesota or Iowa some years, but the road to the Stagg Bowl is tough for everyone west of the 87th longitude.

I don't disagree with you statement at all. The only "people" that can argue about them being overrated would be opponents from the NWC, which has had good success in the most recent years against Hardin-Simmons. Regardless, we can only use the UMHB data point, which indicates that every other year, they play well against or beat UMHB and UMHB does very well in the playoffs including beating HSU. I'm sure this conversation will come up early November after UMHB and HSU face-off and we start discussing Pool C bids.

[Ralph Turner]

I don't disagree with you statement at all. The only "people" that can argue about them being overrated would be opponents from the NWC, which has had good success in the most recent years against Hardin-Simmons. Regardless, we can only use the UMHB data point, which indicates that every other year, they play well against or beat UMHB and UMHB does very well in the playoffs including beating HSU. I'm sure this conversation will come up early November after UMHB and HSU face-off and we start discussing Pool C bids.

Again...

Thanks.

[02 Warhawk]

Whitworth had a very good season last year and had more than enough returning to make another run, imo. At least on paper it looked that way. Linfield is probably living off their previous success more so in the polls (and I might be guilty of that). Whitworth beat them last year, and Linfield didn't make the playoffs. Plus they graduated a lot from 2018. I currently have Whitworth #16 and Linfield #18, which is probably on the high end compared to some people. I wouldn't be surprised in neither team loses again (before the playoffs).

As far as H-S, they are a little tougher. Their two losses last year was to the best team in the country. Plus they get their stud RB back, who didn't play most of 2018. I have them at #6.

[tf37]

Whitworth had a very good season last year and had more than enough returning to make another run, imo. At least on paper it looked that way. Linfield is probably living off their previous success more so in the polls (and I might be guilty of that). Whitworth beat them last year, and Linfield didn't make the playoffs. Plus they graduated a lot from 2018. I currently have Whitworth #16 and Linfield #18, which is probably on the high end compared to some people. I wouldn't be surprised in neither team loses again (before the playoffs).

As far as H-S, they are a little tougher. Their two losses last year was to the best team in the country. Plus they get their stud RB back, who didn't play most of 2018. I have them at #6.

Are you predicting a tie on Nov 9th?

[02 Warhawk]

Whitworth had a very good season last year and had more than enough returning to make another run, imo. At least on paper it looked that way. Linfield is probably living off their previous success more so in the polls (and I might be guilty of that). Whitworth beat them last year, and Linfield didn't make the playoffs. Plus they graduated a lot from 2018. I currently have Whitworth #16 and Linfield #18, which is probably on the high end compared to some people. I wouldn't be surprised in neither team loses again (before the playoffs).

As far as H-S, they are a little tougher. Their two losses last year was to the best team in the country. Plus they get their stud RB back, who didn't play most of 2018. I have them at #6.

Are you predicting a tie on Nov 9th?

Lol. Good point, they still have to play each other. Forgot about that.

[MRMIKESMITH]

It's going to be interesting to see where ballots place some of these one-loss teams from strong conferences and some of some good undefeated teams from good conferences. I didn't drop North Central (Ill.) that far, but struggled to put place Hardin-Simmons. I actually showed some love to Bridgwater (Va.) and Hendrix in my ballot.

[Captainred81]

Crazy that I brought up my skepticism of H-S last week, and here they lose to TLU.  Nothing wrong with that, TLU played lights out... I agree with the comment about NCC not dropping too far.  They played a good game with Wheaton, but for some reason, they can't hang for all 4 quarters against them.  I suspect they will win out and garner a pool C bid.  If Wheaton hangs on and wins out, they will most certainly push someone for a #1 seed.  It may end up having Mount Union in an eastern type bracket, and Wheaton in the North, and then UMHB, St. johns and UWW battling for the West and South.  I think NCC and Wheaton can hang with the top 4 teams, not sure if they could win, but they can hang for sure.  After that, I'm not sure who the next best is...rankings aside, I'm not sure if there are any other teams out there that can legitimately challenge the top 4. 

I suppose St. Thomas is always a challenge, so they are one.  I don't think Berry, Ithaca, Muhlenberg, Bethel, have the squads to do it.