D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[hazzben]

I know they haven't played anyone near Top 25 caliber, but I have a feeling Wash U might be a sleeper this year.

They pass my subjective sniff test at this point as well. We'll get a lot more intel when they play the other top dogs in the CCIW.

So much unique intel at the top of the poll this year. All these head to heads don't necessarily make things cleaner, but definitely more interesting. UWL holding its water against UWW underscores their street cred, even though they didn't win. UWW beats UMHB, but loses to SJU, who lost to Bethel, who lost to UWP (BU w/o QB), UWP loses to Hardin Simmons, HSU loses to UMHB ... my head hurts. Throw in Wartburg's growing resume...

[Ron Boerger]

I think y'all do a great job and appreciate the insights from around the country.  Thanks!

That said if you haven't already seen it (and use Twitter) go have a look at the @d3football twitter.  There's this one UMU fan who takes it as a personal affront if anyone doesn't think the Raiders are #1 and has been ragging on Pat and Keith Mc and anyone else who doesn't share his POV.  And if you want to see something truly hilarious look at the bragging in the guy's profile.  He obviously doesn't know the message board exists, or if he does he hasn't seen this poll, because I have no doubt he'd be ragging on you guys too if he had. 

[02 Warhawk]

Yup, his rants have been going on for days now.

[Etchglow]

I think y'all do a great job and appreciate the insights from around the country.  Thanks!

That said if you haven't already seen it (and use Twitter) go have a look at the @d3football twitter.  There's this one UMU fan who takes it as a personal affront if anyone doesn't think the Raiders are #1 and has been ragging on Pat and Keith Mc and anyone else who doesn't share his POV.  And if you want to see something truly hilarious look at the bragging in the guy's profile.  He obviously doesn't know the message board exists, or if he does he hasn't seen this poll, because I have no doubt he'd be ragging on you guys too if he had.

"But my name is on a building!"

[02 Warhawk]

Plus an old Mount Union friend of ours, who I believe was kicked off this board, is chiming in to help this guy.

Good times

[wally_wabash]

The top 25 is a weird place right now. Because of the h2h's among some of the very top teams, Mount Union has benefitted from some floating, buoyed by things pollsters believe about their returning roster and, of course, their stellar history.  I'm currently voting UMU #2.  If I had to pick a winner between Mount Union and UMHB, UWW, NCC, and probably even UWL right now, I'm not sure I could confidently pick Mount Union.  There are a couple of other teams that while I wouldn't pick to beat Mount Union, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they did.  We're just not going to have certainty about Mount Union until the tournament and if voters want to rank them 1 or 2 for being undefeated and presumably very good, that's cool.  And if voters like Keith and whoever is ranking them 6/7 here have put Mount Union in the "prove it" bucket, that's also cool.  Both are totally reasonable.

[bluestreak66]

Plus an old Mount Union friend of ours, who I believe was kicked off this board, is chiming in to help this guy.

Good times

I think all three of his iterations were kicked off lol

[Ralph Turner]

I know they haven't played anyone near Top 25 caliber, but I have a feeling Wash U might be a sleeper this year.

Purple, thanks for putting them on my radar.

They can wreak havoc if they are as good as you suspect. Otherwise, an 8-2 season gets them into the Top 20.

One might even keep a 7-3 Wheaton in the Top 25.

[crufootball]

I think y'all do a great job and appreciate the insights from around the country.  Thanks!

That said if you haven't already seen it (and use Twitter) go have a look at the @d3football twitter.  There's this one UMU fan who takes it as a personal affront if anyone doesn't think the Raiders are #1 and has been ragging on Pat and Keith Mc and anyone else who doesn't share his POV.  And if you want to see something truly hilarious look at the bragging in the guy's profile.  He obviously doesn't know the message board exists, or if he does he hasn't seen this poll, because I have no doubt he'd be ragging on you guys too if he had.

If you go, and I encourage you too because it is hilarious stuff, make sure you have a good hour or so because this guy is fighting with everyone.

[Next Man Up]

I know they haven't played anyone near Top 25 caliber, but I have a feeling Wash U might be a sleeper this year.

Nationally, I think this is very true. However, within the CCIW you won't find many fans who don't have a healthy respect for the WashU squad. Few would be surprised if they finish 9-1.

[USee]

What is the legitimate rationale for UMU ranked above NCC? I am flummoxed.  NCC 2 straight wins over them in Alliance and two straight Stagg Bowls.  NCC with 16 or so returning starters and a much bigger win so far.  This defies logic. 

[Next Man Up]

What is the legitimate rationale for UMU ranked above NCC? I am flummoxed.  NCC 2 straight wins over them in Alliance and two straight Stagg Bowls.  NCC with 16 or so returning starters and a much bigger win so far.  This defies logic.

UMU opponents have a combined record of 5-12 while NCC's opponents are 6-11.
One of NCC's wins came against then #11 Wheaton.

[bleedpurple]

What is the legitimate rationale for UMU ranked above NCC? I am flummoxed.  NCC 2 straight wins over them in Alliance and two straight Stagg Bowls.  NCC with 16 or so returning starters and a much bigger win so far.  This defies logic.

While NCC returns a lot of players who started games, the lost some studs.  They also lost their head coach.  Could some people take that information and decide that wiped out the margin between NCC and Mount and then some? No idea if that's a valid thought, I'm just trying to come up with a logical explanation.

Pat admitted on the podcast that there are not "tangible" reasons to point to him voting Mount #1.  But to him, there are "intangibles" in place to warrant the vote.

[HOPEful]

What is the legitimate rationale for UMU ranked above NCC? I am flummoxed.  NCC 2 straight wins over them in Alliance and two straight Stagg Bowls.  NCC with 16 or so returning starters and a much bigger win so far.  This defies logic.

UMU opponents have a combined record of 5-12 while NCC's opponents are 6-11.
One of NCC's wins came against then #11 Wheaton.

I am the individual who has Mount ahead of North Central currently, standing in defiance of logic.

Here's why...

As pointed out, their strength of schedules are similar, with a game against Wheaton favoring NC. However, I stopped judging elite D3 teams based solely on their SOS years ago. If I didn't, UWW would just be permanently my number 1 and MHB number 2.

Giving North Central credit for anything they did last year seems like a silly leap for the next go-to criteria. By that logic, Mount has been in the Stagg Bowl 15 of the last 20 seasons. When I compare the elite teams, I go to the eye test before previous seasons. What jumps out? This season's Mount team just looks exceptionally fast on both sides of the ball, both compared to last season and other elite teams. So for now, I give them the edge. It's similar to D1 and Ohio State. They haven't beat anyone of note yet (Notre Dame was a fraud) and still national pundits seem to believe they're the only team out there capable of playing with Alabama and Georgia. Because their QB play, speed of their playmakers, etc. pass the eye test.

I have North Central number 2. Are you judging the best resume or simply who you think the best teams are? MHB lost at WW, but absolutely punished Muhlenberg and Hardin Simmons. Those two wins combine for the most impressive resume out of anyone, so how much do you punish them for a four point loss at Whitewater? Aren't we conditioned at this point to just assume the Stagg Bowl will be played by some combination of Mount, UWW, MHB, and NC? I prefer to think of the top four teams more like 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d... because you're really splitting hairs trying to figure out who "deserves" to be ranked higher. 

[02 Warhawk]

What is the legitimate rationale for UMU ranked above NCC? I am flummoxed.  NCC 2 straight wins over them in Alliance and two straight Stagg Bowls.  NCC with 16 or so returning starters and a much bigger win so far.  This defies logic.

UMU opponents have a combined record of 5-12 while NCC's opponents are 6-11.
One of NCC's wins came against then #11 Wheaton.

I am the individual who has Mount ahead of North Central currently, standing in defiance of logic.

Here's why...

As pointed out, their strength of schedules are similar, with a game against Wheaton favoring NC. However, I stopped judging elite D3 teams based solely on their SOS years ago. If I didn't, UWW would just be permanently my number 1 and MHB number 2.

Giving North Central credit for anything they did last year seems like a silly leap for the next go-to criteria. By that logic, Mount has been in the Stagg Bowl 15 of the last 20 seasons. When I compare the elite teams, I go to the eye test before previous seasons. What jumps out? This season's Mount team just looks exceptionally fast on both sides of the ball, both compared to last season and other elite teams. So for now, I give them the edge. It's similar to D1 and Ohio State. They haven't beat anyone of note yet (Notre Dame was a fraud) and still national pundits seem to believe they're the only team out there capable of playing with Alabama and Georgia. Because their QB play, speed of their playmakers, etc. pass the eye test.

I have North Central number 2. Are you judging the best resume or simply who you think the best teams are? MHB lost at WW, but absolutely punished Muhlenberg and Hardin Simmons. Those two wins combine for the most impressive resume out of anyone, so how much do you punish them for a four point loss at Whitewater? Aren't we conditioned at this point to just assume the Stagg Bowl will be played by some combination of Mount, UWW, MHB, and NC? I prefer to think of the top four teams more like 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d... because you're really splitting hairs trying to figure out who "deserves" to be ranked higher.

UWW on line one...

I'll see your Muhlenberg (unranked) and Hardin Simmons (#10) and raise you a MHB (#1 at the time) and a UW-La Crosse (#9), with the only loss coming at St. John's (#6) as a kicker.