Pool C

[pg04]

I should say there is precedence to say that they may botch it. 

[K-Mack]

I'm not nearly the cynic you guys all are.

I'm all for taking the committee to task for mistakes & misreads, but it's kind of a [not-cool] move to already be complaining & to be assuming they'll mess up.

Each committee is made up of different people and some really have done a nice job. The Dick Kaiser-led committees were really top notch & understood the process & were happy to discuss it.

Last year they got 31 of the right teams and I think they thought they were doing the right thing with W&J. The real gripe was with the secrecy ... If you're confident in everything you've done, the openness is basically the committee explaining how it's done rather than taking a defensive posture.

If you're already drumming up disappointment, you're basically making it so the committee can't win, and if they have to pick six out of 10 and then follow orders on being cheap, people are going to be disappointed no matter what they do.

[K-Mack]

I should say there is precedence to say that they may botch it. 

That's fair.

Me personally, I just see where it's a thankless job and some people like to sit back and nitpick. That goes over better with me when you understand and can articulate the alternatives. Even though Frank is sort of taking an adversarial role already, you can't say he doesn't understand the process.

I'm not sure I see a scenario where there aren't gripes this year since so many teams are in the mix in Week 11. If a bunch don't lose, they're going to have a real tough job.

What would impress me is if the spokesperson, understanding this, tried to maintain a tone of explanation & openness, and the folks went at the committee in search of clarity and understanding instead of looking for trouble.

In all honesty, there's going to be disagreement with whatever they do. The best outcome would be to understand the choices they make and why. I think they should be accountable and consistent in their application from year to year, but same time,  there will be reasons to gripe no matter what.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm all for taking the committee to task for mistakes & misreads, but it's kind of a [not-cool] move to already be complaining & to be assuming they'll mess up.

I'm going to side with the cynics here a little bit, just for this reason -- the committee's own regional rankings are an advance look at the selections, and it sure does seem like they might be messing that up.

Consider it like a politician floating a policy statement out there to get the public's reaction before making it happen. They've floated this possible at-large bid call. How are people not going to react to it?

[altor]

Let's keep in mind the process.  The regional committee will rank the teams first.  They don't really care (nor should they) that one of those three is an AQ.  For their purposes, the teams are practically tied and they have to break it somehow.

Then, that rank goes to the National committee.  When it comes time choose Pool C, they will take the top team off each of the regional lists and place them on the board.  The fact that Rowan might be ahead of their conference AQ and a team that beat them seems suspect at this point in the process, even though it might be perfectly warranted in the previous rank.

So here's the wildcard (and we won't know the answer until Sunday):  does the National committee revisit the NJAC situation and possibly rerank the non-AQ teams before going on with the rest of the Pool C discussion?

[wally_wabash]

Let's keep in mind the process.  The regional committee will rank the teams first.  They don't really care (nor should they) that one of those three is an AQ.  For their purposes, the teams are practically tied and they have to break it somehow.

Then, that rank goes to the National committee.  When it comes time choose Pool C, they will take the top team off each of the regional lists and place them on the board.  The fact that Rowan might be ahead of their conference AQ and a team that beat them seems suspect at this point in the process, even though it might be perfectly warranted in the previous rank.

So here's the wildcard (and we won't know the answer until Sunday):  does the National committee revisit the NJAC situation and possibly rerank the non-AQ teams before going on with the rest of the Pool C discussion?

The ranking as it sits now is probably fine.  There's no good way to break that three way tie and using SOS is fair.  However, once one of those teams qualifies this weekend and two are left, it should be obvious which one should be slotted ahead of the other based on h2h results.  That h2h has to trump everything.  We don't play our games on paper, and while I realize the committee largely has to select teams on paper due to the lack of interregional play, in this case specifically they have a h2h result that ought to drive the ranking.  It isn't like we're talking about tremendously different resumés here.  These teams played each other and play in the same league...their schedules aren't so different that you would really need to lean heavily on OWP and OOWP. 

My feeling is that they will get this one right on Sunday, even if this last set of rankings would make you wonder.  This seems too obvious for a room of intelligent people to not get right. 

[K-Mack]

Exactly what Wally said in his last paragraph. There's a big giant h2h result and all else (record, record vs. RROs, SoS figure) all the same or virtually the same, and it's not a fluke win either, it's a definitive result. You simply CAN'T justify taking Rowan over Montclair State.

I wouldn't read too much into any regional ranking; they're insightful but they fail to hold up on selection Sunday all the time.   Further, I view the 2-3-4 as like when top 25 teams are separated by 2 points. They're basically all ranked the same. If Rowan were to be the A, then yeah, leave Montclair out

I don't like any 9-1 from the NJAC not getting in and Rowan left home would be a shame, but Rowan over Montclair in the face of 26-7 would be a sham.

So there's your test reaction for the politicians, Pat.

[Frank Rossi]

Exactly what Wally said in his last paragraph. There's a big giant h2h result and all else (record, record vs. RROs, SoS figure) all the same or virtually the same, and it's not a fluke win either, it's a definitive result. You simply CAN'T justify taking Rowan over Montclair State.

I wouldn't read too much into any regional ranking; they're insightful but they fail to hold up on selection Sunday all the time.   Further, I view the 2-3-4 as like when top 25 teams are separated by 2 points. They're basically all ranked the same. If Rowan were to be the A, then yeah, leave Montclair out

I don't like any 9-1 from the NJAC not getting in and Rowan left home would be a shame, but Rowan over Montclair in the face of 26-7 would be a sham.

So there's your test reaction for the politicians, Pat.

Keith, in reality, it's not 2-3-4.  When SJF was still at one loss, it was 2-4-5, with Rowan on top.  There apparently was something standing out in the minds of the Committee/Subcommittee that allowed Rowan to be discernible from the other two teams to the degree that allowed another team to fit between Rowan and the rest.  Just because SJF lost and dropped down didn't change that fact since nothing changed inside the triangle last week.  There is something they have in mind there, and it's not overthinking it -- the set of Rankings was odd but unignorable.

[Ralph Turner]

HSU missed a 39 yd FG to lose at Louisiana College 44-42.
LC finishes in the tie for 2nd in the ASC with HSU.

HSC beat Randolph-Macon to lock in the Pool C bid from the South.

A Pool C bid just went to another region.  Is that the East?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wabash has only one in-region loss and utterly destroyed previously undefeated DePauw today.  I wonder if they can have ANY realistic hopes?

[usee]

For Bash fans the WashU loss kills them. They would have a chance otherwise. I think the precedent for total losses has been set vs in region

[rams1102]

Well everyone did what they had to. The strenght of schedule + owp / oowp leads me to believe that Cortland will be the NJAC Champs and if so Congratulations. It appears that everyone has Rowan in as the Pool C, but to me it is pure bull. They lost the H2H by (19) to Montclair. If they get in and Montclair is out, it is nothing but NCAA politics. With the Hard-Sim loss they may be a chance for (2) slots for the East.
Feel bad for Wabash wacking DePauw, but they have (2) loses. Should be an interesting day aroune 3:00 tomorrow.

[wesleydad]

the hardin simmons lose opens things up for several teams, including the njac left out.  will be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow.

[rams1102]

the hardin simmons lose opens things up for several teams, including the njac left out.  will be interesting to see how it plays out tomorrow.

I wish we were in your position. I think this may be your year to go to Salem. Good Luck.

[DanPadavona]

It won't be politics Rams.  It is what it is.  Only 32 teams get in and if you don't run the table, you are behind the 8-ball and we all know this. 

I'm starting to think the NJAC may get all 3 in.  The H-S loss was important to the Pool C contestants.  And if you look at the Eastern Pool C possibilities...

NEFC - best 2nd place team has 2 losses
E8 - Two teams with 2 losses
LL - RPI has 3 losses
MAC - Three teams with 4 losses

None of those conferences are getting a Pool C consideration unless by some shock Springfield or Fisher slips in with 2 losses.  Which leaves only the NJAC with Eastern Pool C considerations.  And yes Pool C is a national pool, but I don't think the NCAA is going to send only 5 or 6 Eastern teams to the dance and say forget the rest.