WBB: Empire 8

TheNextLevel · May 01, 2008, 02:28:19 PM

Elmira's gain is Catholic's loss...Don't let the door hit you in the ___ on the way out!

CardinalRed · May 08, 2008, 01:47:54 PM

Whats the word on Former Elmira and New Catholic coach, Matt Donohue?

TheNextLevel · May 10, 2008, 05:52:59 PM

I hate to post negatives, but if anyone deserves it....and you asked.

A very good recruiter because he will tell a player whatever they want to hear both before and after they are there, rarely follows though on his word , is manipulative and all that catches up with you, thus the frequent moves. Also he will purge the schedule of quality opponents and schedule as many creampuffs as possible to get wins. (Only 5 'out of conference ' wins in the 5 seasons at Elmira against teams with a better than 500 record). His only 2 winning seasons at Elmira were the result of an assistant coach who knew more than he did. Without her he had 3 losing seasons. He often pits players against each other behind the scenes, while preaching Team unity. I could go on and on, but that would identify players . As I said , he did recruit some quality players to Elmira, (but then Elmira attracts quality students/athletes to begin with, as does Catholic) and they played thier hearts out for each other.

Below is an earlier post from another EC fan...

sotier

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Re: Empire Eight
December 08, 2007, 04:44:54 pm »
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EXperiment,and search!! When will it end for Elmira? At some point you need to have some faith in your players. The EC coach seems to have none. You no longer have Coackely to run the "press and run" style. SO ADJUST ALREADY. You have talent, use it properly. Stevens did not scare. They were not dauntingly good. But EC was outcoached. Stevens players were patient, and sharing with the ball. EC was in a hurry to whip up"notice the word shoot was not used" a three, when their best success was moving it inside. The only player who was hitting the three was givin the bench most of the second half. Heres a though RUN HER A PLAY. A group of bench players come in with some spark and decrease the lead to 14, only to be sat down for the remainder. Show some faith!! BUT EC sticks with the press zone defense, and the same offense each time down the floor. Lets see some variation. Coach D has become the worst thing a coach and team can be... PREDICTABLE.

TheNextLevel · May 10, 2008, 06:09:26 PM

Lets start fresh!

Elmira is a great school! Assuming Pat Thompson finds a good hire (she is very good AD) EC will be a great pick for any Coach and any new recruit. It will be a little tough for the first year (the cupboard was left a little bare) but lets hope we can return EC to the glory days of current Rochester and former Elmira coach, Jim Scheible.

TheNextLevel · May 10, 2008, 06:10:20 PM

Lets start fresh!

Elmira is a great school! Assuming Pat Thompson finds a good hire (she is very good AD) EC will be a great pick for any Coach and any new recruit. It will be a little tough for the first year (the cupboard was left a little bare) but lets hope we can return EC to the glory days of current Rochester and former Elmira coach, Jim Scheible.

sotier · May 10, 2008, 09:41:23 PM

OK so Elmira coach D is gone.So now what? I agree with most of what NEXT LEVEL says except the "bare cupboard" part. As was said he was a good recruiter if nothin else.There are players currently on the roster that can win in the E8.But they must be used properly. Repeate..they have the players.The press and run system WAS the right style for the players on the court in 06-07, I give him that.But the dynamic was different this year, and adjustment for the personnel was slow in coming. I would like to see a more conventional style next year. I am from the school of,"just do the basics better".

TheNextLevel · May 11, 2008, 11:47:57 AM

Didn't mean to offend...I said "a little bare", not completely. There are some good returnees. Solid down low with Symonds and Rumple. If Coakley is healthly she is an GREAT defender, handles well and creates offensive opportunities with her ability to get to the basket (but she has trouble finishing). However, her knee was only @50% this past season when she came back and who knows how the knee will be next year. Kent is a solid 2 guard/role player and Peterman can shoot the 3, but is a liablilty on defense. They need to fill a lot of holes after that (Catenese will be very tough to replace)... that's where the recruites come in. I know his top recruit is going elsewhere, and I'm sure others did as well...like I said earlier -word gets around- He left after the May 1st deposit deadline so it is to late for those that may have decided to come when they heard he left.

heatlee · May 15, 2008, 08:24:28 PM

Ripping the former Elmira coach is really not fair, because the team and the progam improved under his watch, and as whole is probably in better shape than it was when he took over.

Additionally, let's be honest Catholic is a better job than Elmira.

TheNextLevel · May 17, 2008, 06:37:34 PM

The record may have improved (for 2 seasons) but not "the program". The facts speak for themsevles as explained in earlier posts.

Coach D is a Centenary Grad, and heatlee (Cabrini grad) has posted about him and Centenary occassionally in the past. He most likey is a crony of his, so it is understandable that he would defend him.

Catholic is a fine school and may be a good fit for him, but he had it made at Elmira. Great School, tons of scholarship money, very supportive Athletic Director and Adminstration, AND he started with a couple of great players to build around. But he blew it. The team went down hill this year and next year was looking worse, so he jumped (was pushed) out.

With the talent EC had... He definitely under-achieved all 5 seasons.

heatlee · May 18, 2008, 09:14:04 AM

The bottom line with Coach D is that he did improve the program from the coach he took over from. The four seasons before he arrived Elmira went 36-61 for a .371 winning percentage. In the five seasons he was there they went 71-63 for a .529 winning percentage. Additionally, in his first year he won six more game with someone elses players.

Maybe he didn't achieve the way some people might have liked, but he did win almost double the amount of games in one more season than his predecessor. And it is obvious that he did a better job than the previous coach. Hopefully for Elmira they hire someone to take the program to the level that many believe it can achieve.

TheNextLevel · May 19, 2008, 12:13:23 PM

As was explained earlier, the increase in the # of wins was the result of a weaker schedule than the previous coaches had. EC's strength of schedule was in the top 100 in the country when he came and dropped to 279 this year according to the D3 hoops rankings. AND his only 2 winning seasons were greatly aided by an excellent assistant coach. Without her he had 3 losing seasons. This season, even with the weak non league schedule and a really down year in the E8, EC was still only 12-13. (Look at the E8 record this season against SUNYAC and Liberty Leagues, very poor).

He walked into a good situation at EC, and it looks like that is true at Catholic as well...the entire team returns and a freshman stud (just like Parker at EC , who did not come back after her knee injury because of Donahue) so they SHOULD do better next year.

Again, he had several very good players who gave all they had for each other and EC.

Bottom Line. Everybody at EC is happy he is gone, you seem happy to have him (wait a couple years). So... Everybody is happy!

sotier · May 19, 2008, 07:49:36 PM

Next level.Seems you have a channel into the goings on at Elmira.Parent?Former player?I dont really care, you have good insite into the program.Thanks for posting.Only those familiar with this team can look beyond the win-loss record to truly get the measure of the quality of the coaching job done this last season.I gotta believe that Donahue himself would say he underperformed. He didnt seem to put the amount of attention as in past years (perhaps some personal problem we dont know about?).Reguardless of the reason, he is gone lets look forward.Do you have any inside info as to the job search?? Many applicants?? Any promising interviews?? Let us know what your ear to the ground hears!!

TheNextLevel · May 20, 2008, 06:29:16 PM

sotier

Somewhat. It is still early in the process and everyone has tight lips (as they should at this stage). I certainly don't want to speak out of turn.

Thanks for the thumbs up.

TheNextLevel · June 19, 2008, 02:36:46 PM

Predictions for next year. I look for Utica to repeat. Everyone should be set by now. By the way still nothing concrete to report on a new Elmira Coach. I am surprised AD Pat Thompson has let it drag on this long... the players are getting anxious!

sotier · June 22, 2008, 07:12:02 PM

Why the delay in finding a new EC coach?? Is the AD not satisfied with the applicants so far? Do they have someone in mind and negotiations on terms at a snag? If I were a current player I guess I would start to be concerned.You would think they would want the new coach in place for their girls summer camp.Time is starting to be rapidly out for that.
As for next years predictions-get back to ya when coaches and recruits in place.