MBB: Northwest Conference

[bbaddict]

That's good NWhoops!  +K for having a good sense of humor.

[bbaddict]

I guess you have to consider who votes in the Top 25:

Who votes in the D3hoops.com Top 25?

There are 25 voters on each panel -- three from each of the NCAA's eight regions with myself as the 25th voter. The voters are coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members.

If you've ever looked at a map of the DIII schools, UPS4Life, you'll notice very few west of Wisconsin.  The Left Coast has to work twice as hard to be noticed.  It's 25 men's opinions, but when it's all said & done, they don't decide who gets to play in the NCAA tournament.  That's left up to the mysterious "Committee" and different conference systems of appointing their AQ teams.  I'm not saying they're wrong -- just saying that it's an opinion -- or several of them compiled together.

[UPS4Life]

True, but I think the Wisconsin teams have proven that their rankings are well deserved, Steven's Point has done so personally to UPS a number of times, here in Tacoma and elsewhere, and both times we were the higher seed.  So I guess it is true that rankings don't matter.  Personally, any team that has to play them twice a year and can play at their level proves something to me as well.  These teams are scary and we'll most likely have to play them in Wisconsin.

[bbaddict]

You're right.  Basketball is pretty serious business in the midwest --- probably too cold to do much else most of the year!   I know those teams are tough.  I'm just saying not to put too much stock in the Top 25 Rankings, because they're interesting, but we're always surprised when the brackets are revealed.

Besides, UPS still has to get through the mighty NWC, don't forget.  There's the conference tournament to be considered and I don't think any of the teams have given up yet.  (Well, maybe some have, but not the top teams.)   Whitman could be a real spoiler this year for some teams and I'm pretty sure they don't think the season's over.

WU's Bearcats are still in it, however, by a string & a prayer.  But, I believe in prayer . . . .

Go Bearcats!

[Gregory Sager]

Speculation on how the top 25 and the West Regional Rankings are going to look after this weekend as UW-SP and UW-Platteville lost, both to #5 UW-Whitewater? 
I'm wondering if this opens the door for UPS to pass one of the two losing teams, but then again losing to the #5 team in a close game might not hurt either one enough.  I think if UPS wins out through the tournament they have a chance to jump up to 3rd or maybe 2nd in the West, but without further losses for Stevens Point or St. Thomas (which I don't anticipate) I think our relatively weak conference this year will keep the Loggers from anything higher than a 3rd or 4th seed.

In what Universe is a conference that has more than 1/2 it's teams over .500 a weak one?

My bad, I meant weak when compared to the WIAC which I was discussing.  Three teams in the top 5?

Yeah, but by the WIAC's standards everyone else in D3 is "relatively weak".

[bbaddict]

So, Mr. Sager, you know stuff!  How often do the Wisconsin teams make it to the Final Four?  Just curious.

[Gregory Sager]

2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)

[bbaddict]

Thanks!

[Pugetsoundfan]

Oh, my, thinking about the Stevens Point game in Tacoma still gives me a little heartburn.  That was a great UPS team, and the Pointers tortured the Loggers.  It was hard to watch, and given the quality of that UPS team, almost unbelievable how UWSP's strength and discipline just killed the Logs. 

I'd not thought about this before, but eyeballing things it seems like there are quite a few more public institutions with D3 athletic programs in the midwest than there are in the west.  I wonder how this shapes recruiting.....



 

[nwhoops1903]

2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)

Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

[LogShow]

2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)

Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

This arguement has been made before, mostly by logger fans, lol.  But I think it simply has to to with meeting the requirements.  However, the differences are quite staggering.  I think undergrad enrollment is around 12,000.  Does that give them unfair advantages in recuirting as far as admission and cost of school.  possibly. Of course there are small D1 like Butler (like 4,300).

There aren't many D2 and NAIA schools in the midwest.  So it does give the WIAC schools somewhat of an advantage, because they don't have to complete against other schools giving scholorships.

All that being said...UPS went to UW-Stout last year and dominated them.  Honestly, I think the top of the WIAC is exceptionally good, and UPS would have to play one heck of a game to beat them.  But, the middle to bottom half aren't anything special, I think UPS would have lots of success against them.

[Mr. Ypsi]

2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)

Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

Enrollment per se has NOTHING to do with it.  This isn't high school where athletes try out from the student body.  They are specifically recruited.  It matters not a whit whether the school has 500 or 25,000 students; it matters how good in recruiting the coaches are.

WIAC schools DO have certain advantages over most privates - lower tuition and lower admission requirements (though, especially these days, I suspect some privates will take anyone with a pulse and adequate finances).  But also recognize that they far from the only public schools in d3.

And my understanding is that there is not a chance in the world that WIAC will go d2 - a political impossibility.

[Bearcat Press]

2005: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2004: UW-Stevens Point (national champion)
2000: UW-Eau Claire (second place)
1999: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1998: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1995: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1992: UW-Platteville (third place)
1991: UW-Platteville (national champion)
1989: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1984: UW-Whitewater (national champion)
1983: UW-Whitewater (fourth place)

Looks to me like the WIAC needs to go D2 where they belong.  Average undergrad enrollment of a D3 school vs average enrollment of a WIAC school?  Humor me.

Stay away from the hornets' nest!  WIAC people are really sensitive about this topic, because it gets brought up over and over again.

In fact, over on the football board, we had this argument a couple of months ago when Willamette came up against Whitewater in the playoffs.  I'm not so sure enrollment is as much of a factor as facilities, funding, and admissions factors are.  Of course, with bigger enrollment you have a much bigger alumni base, so there's something to be said there as well.  So while I definitely think that schools like those in the WIAC have a leg up one someone like Willamette or UPS, I wouldn't go so far as to say that they need to go D2.

(As much as I would like them to.)

[Pat Coleman]

Their endowments don't reflect the impact of a big enrollment base.

I think facilities -- at some D3 state schools but certainly not all -- are one place that a state school could have a big advantage.

[sac]

I think there are only 2 or 3 D2 schools in the entire state of Wisconsin(Viterbo, Parkside for sure).  This is the WIAC's biggest advantage coupled with the lower than avg tuition vs most D3 privates.

I believe the WIAC's are the only state schools in the Midwest anywhere.

The SUNYAC and NJAC also have state schools, neither has success at the level the WIAC has had.