MBB: Northwest Conference

[oldchap]

Played no one, beat no one.

OxyBob

Have you ever heard of the proverbial glass house? Oxy played a BIG NO ONE, and didn't even manage to beat it. Chapman is perfectly content to be a big fish in a small pond and not a guppy...Being the best D3 team in California and the second best team on the West Coast (perhaps third, as some people would argue about Whitman) won't make the National News but it sure feels better.

[etule]

Chapman would have been beaten a few times in the NWC. Second best team in the west I don't think so. They wouldn't be second best team in NWC! Good team but weak schedule! All the NWC schools play Whitworth twice. That alone would have knocked them out of top 25!

[etule]

Whitworths short rotation finally caught up with them down the strech on Sat. Also to much one on one. Wooster is deep and had some pretty good defenders who wore WW out! good game to watch and great run by WW!

[Gregory Sager]

No need to argue about who would beat who, the bottom line is that Whitworth 2010-11 was a very good team and the league was not down this year and all these teams, Chapman, Whitman, LC, could have competed at a national level well enough to get to the Sweet Sixteen with proper seeding.  Hopefully the NWC will get more respect and get more teams in the tournament and maybe even Chapman will get sent to another pod other than with the NWC.

Again with the respect thing? Guys, Pool C berths are not doled out on the basis of respect. There's a fixed formula of five criteria that are used. Exactly how those five criteria are weighted in the committee's deliberations on selection day is a matter of speculation ... but "respect" has nothing to do with it.

The NWC gets, or does not get, Pool C berths based upon the way that the teams that did not earn the automatic bid measure up in terms of those five criteria against other at-large teams around the country. The Rodney Dangerfield routine does not work.

[Gregory Sager]

Above all, don't let the facts get in the ways of a good argument. According to the NCAA official calculations, Chapman was ranked 15th in the field of the 61 teams that participated in the playoffs in terms of strength of schedule and well above that of Whitworth.

That's an empty argument to a significant degree, because: a) the NCAA only recognizes in-region games when assessing strength of schedule; and b) teams play widely-varying amounts of in-region games, with Chapman's 18 being towards the low end of the spectrum.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.

[oldchap]

Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.

The other reason, I think, why Chapman's strength of schedule was relatively high is because of the new weight that the NCAA places in games played home vs. away. Out of the 29 games Chapman played this year, they only played 9 games at home, including the first round of the playoffs and other non D3 teams. If you count only season games and D3 teams, that's only 5 home games, out of which only 3 were in-region teams.

From my own experience watching College games, especially D3, I think that the NCAA was right in giving less weight to games played at home, as it has a significant impact on the final result. And when you're traveling as much as Chapman did during the season, I can tell you that it takes its toll on the players and their performance.

[Gregory Sager]

Yeah Gregory - but it also takes into account a team's opponents opponents winning percentage which makes the field of teams greater and thus an impact on the SOS.

Now, the SOS is 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP (with the multiplier already included)... but it isn't like it rewarded Chapman for only playing 18 of their 25 games in region... in fact, they actually had less margin for error with their in-region W/L as a result.

While the 15th ranking seems high... it isn't like it was based on just those 18 games... it was also based on those 18 teams (repeats, yes) schedules.

I wasn't implying that Chapman got a break in terms of SOS because it played fewer games. I was simply stating the fact that the Panthers played 18 games as an illustration of the variance in the number of in-region games, as numerous teams around the country played upwards of 26 or 27 games. That skews any comparative calculations, for OOWP as well as for OWP.

The other reason, I think, why Chapman's strength of schedule was relatively high is because of the new weight that the NCAA places in games played home vs. away. Out of the 29 games Chapman played this year, they only played 9 games at home, including the first round of the playoffs and other non D3 teams. If you count only season games and D3 teams, that's only 5 home games, out of which only 3 were in-region teams.

That's a good point, oldchap.

From my own experience watching College games, especially D3, I think that the NCAA was right in giving less weight to games played at home, as it has a significant impact on the final result. And when you're traveling as much as Chapman did during the season, I can tell you that it takes its toll on the players and their performance.

Yes, but the $64,000 question is how much more should road games be weighted than home games. A lot of people who commented on this subject in the Multi-Regional Topics rooms felt that the weighted multipliers were too exaggerated.

[dahlby]

FWIW:

After reading several posts regarding several opinions of Chapman, I felt the need to comment. Everyone seems to be a great analyst regarding what was, or coulda' been, shoulda' been, was, what ifs', if onlys'...the list goes on.

First, the bottom line is, it is what it WAS. Anyone, including myself, with around 4 decades of marketing and marketing research experience, can take all the coaches, committee, poster's, SID's or any other poll and twist and turn the polls or results of the various contests and make them read what we want. So why don't we all just agree to disagree and move on.

Let's pin our hopes and dreams for the teams, conferences (or lack thereof), and  regions on the remaiining remaining spring sports. If those sports don't interest you, then we can start talking about the fall sports, and if they don't interest you, we can move on to next season's basketball season.

Although nothing is firm yet, meaning no contracts, I hear that Chapman will be playing most of, if not all of the SCIAC teams next year. Chapman only played George Fox in the regular season this year, and I don't know if it was a 2 year contract or not. But I have heard that we will be playing a couple of NW conference teams next year.  This will be a better gauge of Chapman's strength of schedule.

Chapman has a problem scheduling games in January and February, as you all are aware.
There is not problem scheduling thru December. Next year Chapman loses at least a couple of games against Dallas, who will join a conference. Fortunately, a couple of SCIAC teams, along with a couple of NW teams will fill that void. The bottom side is that it only means more games for Chapman in a shorter period of time, which means less time between games early in the season.

What this will probably mean is that Chapman will need to schedule the La Sierra's, West
Coast Baptist's, American Sports Institute's, Pacifca's and the like during the last part of the regular season. As you all are aware, the competition is not as high with those teams. Then, if Chapman makes the playoffs, they will need to play at a much higher level, almost immediately.

In the meantime, all I can say is that, given its schedule, however you feel about it, is that in the few games that Chapman played, that counted, with the exception of Cal LU and Whitworth, they took care of business. And isn't that what it is all about, doing the best you can with what you have been given?

Good luck to all your favorite teams.

[oldchap]

Great post Dahlby!

I will just correct one small inaccuracy: Chapman did play (and won against) not one, but two NWC teams: George Fox and Puget Sound. Those aren't at the top of the NWC but aren't rollovers either. Chapman also managed to play (and beat) Oglethorpe, which finished 10-6 in the SCAC.

[dahlby]

oldchap:

I stand corrected. Thank you.

[D O.C.]

Well deserved K.C. !

[playball]

After all the hate you pitch on Linfield hoops, now you congratulate?  Thanks I guess.

[wildcat11]

A quick story about D O.C. that I think you hoop fans would enjoy (I've posted this on the FB board at one time):

D O.C. attended Linfield back in the day (late 60's - early 70's) when Linfield Legend Ted Wilson was the basketball coach and the 'Cats played in the tiny barn of a gym (Riley Gym) where Walker Hall now stands (across the street from the commons).  Riley was pack to the gills during this era and the crowd was pretty much on top of the floor and very rowdy.  At that time the 'Cats had a very damn good hoops program as the 'Cats were winning consecutive NWC titles and was of playoff caliber year in and year out.

A classmates of D O.C told me this story and I've confirmed this with various folks that this is pretty accurate.  D O.C. would attend every home game but he wouldn't sit in the student section or even with the crowd.  D O.C. would bring a folding chair into the games and sit near the baseline or in the opposite corner from the crowd and be all by himself watching the game from his court side chair.  When the 'Cats had a team on the ropes and D O.C. thought the game was in hand he would stand up, fold up his chair, and leave.  The Linfield crowd caught on and knew when D O.C. left, the game was finished for the visitor, and it was the ultimate "it's all over" moment for visiting teams.

The best part of this story is that the 'Cats hosted a playoff game at Riley Gym one year (can't recall each year) and on the opening tip, Linfield took the opening possession in for a score to open up a 2-0 lead. 

Right then, Dens stood up, folded up his chair and left the gym.  From what I'm told, Riley Gym exploded as the fans went crazy and the 'Cats went on and rolled for the win.

[D3Fan24]

Congrats to Whitman freshman guard Josh Duckworth on being named D3hoops.com West Region Freshman of the Year. Fantastic season.