MBB: Northwest Conference

[(509)Rat]

Whitworth wins by a lot

[catmac567]

Linfield was very competitive this year before the injuries hit,  they lost a number of games right at the end. They played a very good Montana State Northern team (NAIA) to a four point game.  Injuries were a major factor this year.  The Cats did not get many breaks this year.   As to Coach Doty not sticking to Coach Wilson's system.  He has tweaked it, but he still runs the basic fast break system.  I am not buying that criticism.  I think Coach Wilson would have adapted as well. He was a very good coach and too smart not to make adjustments with the times.  This is a different era from when Coach Wilson coached and changes have to be made.  DIII rules are a lot stricter in terms of financial aid than the NAIA rules ever were. You have a right to your thoughts, but I am sorry you do not like Coach Doty.  He is a fine coach and more important, a fine individual.  I have said it before and I will say it again, I would want my children to play for Coach Doty and I feel the same way about Coach Wilson.

[(509)Rat]

Logie out-coached Bridgeland last night. Whitworth broke the press relatively early and the Missionaries had no answer. Whitworth stuck to the Whitman perimeter players and Whitman couldn't figure out how to get quality shots (inside or out).

Whitworth had 8 turnovers. Haven't looked but I'd guess Whitman opponents avg around 20 per game. It was awesome to see Larkin as the beneficiary to Logie's break. He deserved to have a huge night. Ultimate team player. Gets everyone else involved on offense, makes the shots he does take, gets matched up against an opponent's best SG/F and never gets in foul trouble. Glad he got 22.

I'm guessing Whitworth will get Redlands at home. Hopefully the outcome is similar to their matchup earlier in the season...

[A Buc Forever]

WW women also going to the tournament. It's a good day to be a Pirate.

[D O.C.]

DEFENSE!

I've said it before and I'll say it once more, I do not like losing.
That 21-6 season was 13 years ago!
I do not like being mediocre - or DEAD LAST.

The reference to Ted Wilson system from me was that Lary Doty QUIT basketball while a student.

My gripe (s),as you know, comes from LD's reaction when I found a perfect athlete for LINFIELD and his remark to me was "We thought he was too good for us."

I'm going to go have a Red Bull at the Dead Horse Cafe and leave these pages for the playoff people. Good luck NWC.

[playball]

DEFENSE!

I'm going to go and leave these pages

Well said. 

[catmac567]

 I am not fond of being last, and I want Linfield to be successful.  But not at any cost.
Obviously I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine.
I will always support Larry Doty, and will be very upset if he is forced out.  I do not remember
Larry quitting basketball while a student at Linfield. He is a classmate of mine, so I was there
during his playing days.  Even if he did, that is for him to decide.  No one else knows what
circumstances occur.    There are two young men leaving this years Cat Hoop team to
transfer to Linfield's nursing program to pursue degrees in Nursing.  I applaud them for having
the courage to leave a game they love to pursue even more worthy goals getting a degree where they will be helping people.

Best of luck to the Northwest Conference representatives in both Men and Womens  Basketball,
hope you can bring back a national championship.

[TryMeTeam]

My two cents, now worth only a penny, which they will stop making soon!

Doty is a great, mediocre coach!  But he hasn't had a good run at the higher level teams in many years, and I don't see that changing.  He has a system, and players be damned, he will run that system regardless.  That was my knock on Gordy James and his flex offense.  I have watched Doty since the "clipboard" days and heard stories of the past, and he just doesn't get his players to play at a higher level.  He wants to play a tough defense, taking charges, in-your-face man-to-man, full court pressure.  How is that working working for him?  His offense is the same as it was 10 years ago, and that will kill your chances in the NWC where everyone knows what everyone else is doing.  He plays too many kids and only recently have the better players played more than half a game.  There was a time before Playball when all-league players got 20-25 minutes or less a game.  What star recruits are going to like that? 

Larry's fans say he is a great guy.  I can't and won't dispute that.  If you say so, it must be true.  Money does talk and programs that have it are prospering.  But maybe he needs to change his system.  If I was as unsuccessful as he has been for as long as he has, I would take a look at what I was doing and see if my players were better suited to something different.  I think that best he has done in the last 10 years is a 4th or 3rd playoff position once or twice? 

I think the rest of the league is hoping Larry never leaves, because if a really good coach came in there, with the athletic popularity of Linfield athletics, especially football and now baseball, they could become a force in basketball too.  Maybe the football people are happy with the basketball team being mediocre.

Just the opinion of an outsider who wants OR teams to beat the crap out of the WA teams, but like the Wildcat basketball fans, hopes each year for that to happen and is let down year after year. 

[formercat]

DEFENSE!

The reference to Ted Wilson system from me was that Lary Doty QUIT basketball while a student.

My gripe (s),as you know, comes from LD's reaction when I found a perfect athlete for LINFIELD and his remark to me was "We thought he was too good for us."

Really? Because if you look in the archives of Linfield's sports page you can see that Doty played 25 out of 28 games his senior year, 26 out of 26 games his junior year, and only a couple of games his sophomore and freshman year because as he has said he played JV.  So awesome credible information there on your part.

But you are right, I also recruited a basketball player to Linfield as an alumni/fan. He was already to attend Linfield without ever meeting the coach much like the kid you are talking about, but Doty pulled the same crap and said he was too good for Linfield. And thats the story on how Lebron James ended up not attending Linfield.

[formercat]

He has a system, and players be damned, he will run that system regardless.  That was my knock on Gordy James and his flex offense. 

Doty has not been running the exact same system, he has slowed the pace down sometimes, not pressed sometimes, some years starters have played 30 or more minutes. So thats not a factual statement. Second, did Hayford not run a system? Did Bridgeland not run a system at UPS and currently at Whitman? Each coach in college generally has a particular system and they predominately recruit kids that can succeed in their system.  Sometimes things might not go as planned and so the coach needs to make adjustments, but to say a college coach should not have a system is rediculous.  How is Jim Boeheim's system working? Mike Krzyzewski has a system, does it work?

[Bearcat Press]

Love the flex or hate it, Gordie won a national title.  That takes care of the discussion for me.

The problem with Gordie's last few years at Willamette had little to do with his offensive scheme.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: in terms of an entire program, including facilities, players, institutional requirements, and administrative support, nobody did more with less than Gordie.  The season that playball's team got left out of the playoffs on a tiebreak was emblematic of that.  That team had some solid players (McClary, Kunke, Mitchell, and the truly underrated Mike Smith), but it had no business finishing third.

I may not like Linfield, but I have tremendous respect for Larry Doty.  Even though my team is a competitor and rival of his, I hope Linfield gives him the tools he needs to succeed.

[(509)Rat]

My only question is, when will Doty run..."The System"...?




But seriously. Linfield better be nice to Doty and hope he leaves semi-happy. formercat knows exactly what I'm talking about

[formercat]

But seriously. Linfield better be nice to Doty and hope he leaves semi-happy. formercat knows exactly what I'm talking about

Agreed, if it goes down bad some Linfield athletics dirty laundry could be aired!

[wildcat11]

I don't have much to say about what is going on about Linfield basketball.   There are much more qualified people here to break down the X's & O's about the conference and why folks think the program hasn't achieved the success that seems to alluding hoops at Linfield.  However, I did want to chime in on something that comes up from time to time.  The whole "other sports don't get support at Linfield the same way as Linfield football does".

That's true in terms of alumni donations, support, and interest.  I'm not going to insult you by saying otherwise. 

In terms of money the school puts into football compared to other sports?  Again, that's also true.  But what you need to look at is what Linfield football gets financially compared to the other schools in the conference.

Linfield is 2nd to last in total expenses compared to the other schools in the Northwest Conference.  Willamette, Pacific, Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark all spend more money on football than Linfield.  Yes, Puget Sound and Lewis and Clark spend more money on football than Linfield.  And I believe that 100%.  Have you seen the old frat couches that make up the offensive meeting room under the stadium?  The locker room that hasn't been refurbished in over 30 years?  Jerseys (iron on lettering/numbers) that are faded on a number of jerseys.  Fly to Abilene?  509Rat makes fun of Linfield because Whitworth gets a charter direct to into Abilene while Linfield flies 3 1/2 hours out of the way to DFW and take charter buses to save money.   But I've seen posts on here in the past that makes it seem that Coach Smith is swimming around a vault of gold bullion like Scroog McDuck.  The football program makes the most of what they have and have great alumni support.

Football does get more support than other sports at Linfield but when you take a look at the big picture they don't get money you would think (compared to the other football programs in the NWC) for a program that has 57 consecutive winning seasons, 4 national titles, and has only lost 5 NWC games over the past 12 years. 

If anything if Linfield College needs to dig deeper to supply the entire athletic department with more funds.  What I mean by that is invest more into the assistant coaching, travel, and recruiting budget.   If they did that, then I have no doubt that the other programs at Linfield would capitalize. 

Go 'Cats!

[formercat]

In terms of money the school puts into football compared to other sports?  Again, that's also true.  But what you need to look at is what Linfield football gets financially compared to the other schools in the conference.

Willamette, Pacific, Whitworth, Puget Sound, and Lewis & Clark all spend more money on football than Linfield.  Yes, Puget Sound and Lewis and Clark spend more money on football than Linfield. 

Not sure where you got your numbers from, but the numbers that I have found from the Department of Education tell a slightly different story.  Granted I am not sure if these dollar amounts include donations from alumni or not, but I would think they do since Pacific's is so high.

Linfield spends 159,000 on football. Willamette spends 102,000. Pacific 258,000. Lewis and Clark 168,000. PLU 102,000. UPS 97,000. Whitworth 152,000.  Those numbers tell me Linfield spends about as much money as anyone else in the conference except for Pacific and if Pacific can keep spending that money and getting ex-Linfield guys to join their staff Linfield could be in trouble because its hard to compete with that kind of money.

On the basketball side of things the top two teams Whitworth and Whitman outspend everyone greatly. Whitworth spends 111,000 and Whitman 116,000. Willamette 69,000. Pacific 59,000. L&C 33,000. GF 50,000. PLU 60,000. UPS 62,000. Linfield 53,000.

So it seems that those schools with the more money to spend are staying atop the conference, except L&C football. So while as you said Joe Smith does not have Scrooge McDuck money to spend he does have enough to be competitive with every team except Pacific.