MBB: Northwest Conference

[madzillagd]

UWWW jumped out at me as well but I didn't want to make it too long of a post.  They lost obviously and it makes you wonder if they were truly deserving of that ranking - it depends on the criteria of the voters.  I think in general the voters give the teams that play a lot of quality opponents (and have a higher SOS as a result) a lot of deserving credit for those wins.  But it's an imperfect system of course because it's so spread out and it's tough to measure one opponent versus another.  It's in the tournament when we usually see ranked teams playing each other where things start to get confirmed but that hasn't happened yet for WW because of the schedule.  They're still playing teams they played during the season so I have no way of knowing whether they are better than the NESCAC schools or worse than the Midwest schools for example.   

On the NESCAC board I can assure that many were commenting on how Midd ended up with a very favorable draw.  The SOS maybe be lower for those teams but in terms of getting testing, the NE teams that are still in (Amherst, Midd, Williams) have all been tested multiple times.  WW played 3 games this year against tournament teams (2-1).  Amherst played 6 (5-1).  Midd played 4 (1-3). Williams played 8 (4-4).  Midd is the weakest of the group and I think they've been ranked too high all year (and you can find my posts 3-4 months ago talking about that to the ire of the Midd fans) but they lucked out and got a good draw.  Williams doesn't look great at 4-4 but they are 4-1 against teams not named Amherst so I think they are about where they should be and could see them down below Ill Wes and it would make sense to me. 

I'm a West coast guy, SCIAC alum and been following the NWC schools from afar for the past couple of years so I totally understand the limitations in terms of schedules etc. when it comes to the West.  It's not WW's fault they haven't played a Top 25 school in the tournament yet, I'm just saying I'm not convinced they are the #6 team in the country until they do play a Top 25 team and beat them.  St Mary's should be that test and since they are #11 it will bring a lot of evidence that they deserve that spot.  Midd's victory proved to me they deserved to be up there, I'm just not convinced yet they should be as high as #7.

[madzillagd]

Im still fuzzy on this.  Is it then set up like NWC Champ versus Sciac champ? WIAC Champ versus at large? Etc?

No.  But travel dictates a lot of who people play.  The NCAA wants to limit the number of flights for teams to keep down costs so usually SCIAC vs NWC is a First Round game but it doesn't have to be. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

This may help you from the D3hoops.com FAQs: http://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament

[Bearcat Press]

Larry Doty has retired as Linfield head basketball coach:

http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.php?id=4869

[catmac567]

Larry Doty has retired as men's basketball coach at Linfield College. Given the lack of support from the College and the Athletic Department, I am not surprised.  If the College does not increase support for basketball, this will be a difficult job for any coach.  I wish the new coach good luck - he will need it.

[madzillagd]

I wonder given the budget restraints previously mentioned, if the new coach will have smarts to ask if Doty could help out on recruiting and if asked, would Doty do it.  Doesn't have to be a full time job  or anything, but if he could hit a handful of tournaments etc. a year might help the team improve.  He obviously knows the school and what it means to play sports there. 

[playball]

Good luck to the new coach and congrats on a great career at Linfield for Dotes!  He always talked about writing a book of all the crap he had to put up with and I hope he does it!  A must read for sure. 

[Gregory Sager]

And since when is this "easy road to the sweet 16" issue/argument a thing? I don't remember people saying that about any of the NE school's brackets. Ever.

Then you must be skipping over certain pages, especially in the Multi-Region Topics tree, because the "easy road to Salem" argument has been directed at the Northeast and East regions, NESCAC teams and Rochester in particular, over and over and over again through the years. The NESCAC regulars are almost as sick of hearing about it as they are of hearing about how their conference "games the system" by only playing a single round-robin conference schedule.

UWWW jumped out at me as well but I didn't want to make it too long of a post.  They lost obviously and it makes you wonder if they were truly deserving of that ranking - it depends on the criteria of the voters.

Fifth-ranked UWW lost by four points to North Central, the #3 team in the nation, on NCC's home floor. The Warhawks actually had a chance to tie the game, down 63-60 with six seconds left; Darnell Harris missed a trey attempt, the Cardinals rebounded, and made one free throw to create the final margin. For a lot of observers, be they pollsters, fans, coaches, or computer programs, four points is the standard variation for home-court advantage. Sagarin, in fact, uses the four-point tilt for home court in all college basketball projections. Massey and other ranking systems, by contrast, have variable home-court advantages that are calculated for each individual team ... but when you take all the teams in the division together and average out their home-court advantages, the average is right around -- you guessed it -- four points.

My read on how the d3hoops.com pollsters tend to think is that the Warhawks would probably not have been penalized for that four-point loss at North Central in terms of where UWW would be ranked the next week, all other factors remaining equal. Of course, the fact that there are no d3hoops.com polls taken between the beginning of the D3 tourney and the championship game changes all that.

Bottom line: UWW's loss to North Central last Saturday doesn't make me wonder if the Warhawks were truly deserving of that ranking. If anything, the loss somewhat confirms UWW's lofty ranking, because it's no mean feat to take this particular NCC team down almost to the final buzzer on its home floor the way that the Warhawks did.

[Gregory Sager]

Incidentally, let me state for the record that, although in a perfect world a properly-constructed tournament bracket like D1's would be ideal, given the limitations with which the D3 men's basketball committee is forced to work, I'm happy that Whitworth gets three consecutive home games this year before having to travel to Salem. (That's if the Pirates beat the Crusaders this coming Saturday, of course.) It feels like payback for all of the times that NWC teams (especially Whitworth) have gotten the shaft in terms of hosting, due to their unfortunate geographical circumstances.

[madzillagd]

Incidentally, let me state for the record that, although in a perfect world a properly-constructed tournament bracket like D1's would be ideal, given the limitations with which the D3 men's basketball committee is forced to work, I'm happy that Whitworth gets three consecutive home games this year before having to travel to Salem. (That's if the Pirates beat the Crusaders this coming Saturday, of course.) It feels like payback for all of the times that NWC teams (especially Whitworth) have gotten the shaft in terms of hosting, due to their unfortunate geographical circumstances.

I think we can all agree that would be awesome but it's never going to happen of course. 

Given the outcome and their record against other Top 25 teams wouldn't you slot UWWW closer to 10th than 5th at this point?  I think a poll done today may look something like this...

ST
Amherst
NC
WW
Williams
Midd
Ill Wes
St Marys
Calvin
UWWW?
Wooster
VW

UWWW may be above Wooster but I don't think they stay above anybody else. I do believe WPI would drop below them for sure.   

[Gregory Sager]

Having seen UWW play, I have no problems with the Warhawks being ranked fifth.

I don't think they'll stay there in the final poll, though.

[formercat]

Larry Doty has retired as men's basketball coach at Linfield College. Given the lack of support from the College and the Athletic Department, I am not surprised.  If the College does not increase support for basketball, this will be a difficult job for any coach.  I wish the new coach good luck - he will need it.

Doty asked for money for a full time assistant coach, he was told no. He asked for money to play other D3 teams during the non-conference schedule so theirs would not have to be so heavy with NAIA teams from the Cascade Conference, he was told no. He asked for a reduced work load outside of basketball (teaching obligations), he was told no. So he told them he go no longer keep going without any financial support.  Meanwhile the football team gets extra money to fly in recruits from across the country.

The new coach will have the good fortune of only having to be the Head Basketball Coach even though they made Doty teach classes, guess that person has that going for them.

[Pat Coleman]

If they didn't want Doty to stick around, I could see them saying no. It's possible the next coach might get some of those things.

[(509)Rat]

Let's not forget that some of the budget is on the coach. The basketball budget is not as large as it is because the school is forking over a bunch of money. It was Hayford, wining and dining friends, alumni, local (and some not so local) businesses, etc. I'm sure Logie and his staff continue to work many of those connections, since I know other sports have gotten deals at hotels, for example, because Hayford had already built the relationship.

Any alumni or business donations that may have dried up, well thats on Doty. 100%.

[(509)Rat]

More importantly, congrats to Wade Gebbers for making d3hoops all-West Region 1st Team!

This is probably more of a nod due to lifetime achievement, but it's well deserved and recognizes the guy responsible for righting the ship after those late season losses. He really stepped up and led the team to playing some of it's best basketball of the season leading up to the tournament.

http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-region/2012-13/west-men