MBB: Northwest Conference

[(509)Rat]

Whitworth got within 9 with 3 min left in the game before Montana pulled away to win 94-79.

Valle led the Pirates with 21

I haven't checked a box score but I'm assuming Montana was very liberal with their substitutions. Still, to hang with them all game is all this Pirate fan really wanted to see. Especially after shooting 38% in the first half.

Whitworth should again be a heavy favorite to win the conference. They just have too many dudes who can play. Maybe Whitman's transfers have enough talent for the Missionaries to keep pace with the Pirates in the title race...UPS brings back enough to make a run at it...everyone else? Not so much.

[Pinecone_Curtain]

NWC Coaches Poll is out (http://www.nwcsports.com/sports/mbkb/2014-15/releases/nwcpoll-mbsk2015). No real surprises IMO.

1. Whitworth (6)
2. Whitman (3)
3. UPS
4. LC
5. Pacific
6. George Fox
7. PLU
8. Linfield
9. Willamette

I think it's clear the Whits and UPS are the top 3 that everyone is chasing. I think Fox, Pacific and LC will be in a big battle for that fourth playoff spot. Wouldn't surprise me to see Pacific sneak up there. And it's still painfully obvious that Linfield and Willamette are in "rebuilding" mode, though I think Linfield could surprise a few people. With Batiuk back, plus a couple young and talented guards, wouldn't surprise me if they can catch fire and win a few more than last year.

I'm actually a little afraid of Whitman this year. They usually bring their A game for Whitworth, but then have those slip ups (loss @ Pacific last year) along the way. If they can figure those out, they could pose a real threat to Whitworth's dominance.

[blackhawks4]

Happy to be back with you fine gentlemen for another season of NWC hoops.  Preseason rankings look exactly as they should, except I'd put GF higher.

Pinecone, I didn't think Bridgeland's "I can take the absolute worst team in the league to the best team" would take this long either, but you should be afraid of Whitman in 2014-15.  I thought last year was going to be the year of the dethroning, but injuries left WMN w/o their entire roster all year, and come playoffs WW was just plain better.

In my opinion, no team in the NWC deserves a national ranking higher than #20.  We haven't proven to be a contender for a title.  A real title, that is.  Every year Whitworth goes to the tournament...we beat up on the SCIAC...and then WW continues to prove to us that they don't care about being great.  Instead, WW is comfortable being good, and continues to be afraid to take a risk to go to the next level--whether it be recruiting or style of play...Same old recycled good team.

I'll take the sustained success regardless of no national title. I consistently have a very good team to cheer for

I know there's a million reasons why it won't work, (scheduling, travel, money, etc.), but in years to come, I would love to see WW and WMN schedule a late season out of conference game against the Wisconsin schools during their bye week.

All NWC predictions--which are tough this year with seemingly everyone graduating--so I only have 4:  Oti, Mournier, Martin (WMN),  Farnsworth (WW)

With Thanksgiving around the corner, I've decided that this year I'm most thankful that the curly haired guard from WW has graduated and used all of his eligibility.

Ready for next weekend!

[Gregory Sager]

In my opinion, no team in the NWC deserves a national ranking higher than #20.  We haven't proven to be a contender for a title.  A real title, that is.  Every year Whitworth goes to the tournament...we beat up on the SCIAC...and then WW continues to prove to us that they don't care about being great.  Instead, WW is comfortable being good, and continues to be afraid to take a risk to go to the next level--whether it be recruiting or style of play...Same old recycled good team.

You make it sound as though nobody else has any say in how and when Whitworth's season ends. The Pirates aren't playing against themselves in the sectionals, you know. I hate to break it to you, but there's no slouches left once you get past the first weekend of the D3 tournament.

[A Buc Forever]

Blackhawks4,

I personally don't get your complaints about the WW program. I think WW is doing everything they can to be as good as they can. They have recruited kids out of Australia and Spain, they are getting top kids from the Northwest.  They regularly get guys that are offered money at NAIA and Div II schools or offered preferred walk-on spots at Div I schools.  Logie's credentials as a coach are impeccable.  I'm not sure what else they could do to get much better.  They are competing with the top tier programs in the nation.  Like Sager said, no gimmes past the first weekend and the Bucs have gone all the way to the Elite Eight. I think their record qualifies as something beyond "good."

This could be a great year for the Pirates.  Love has lost weight, Jurlina has had a year to get used to the system, and Valle is coming into his own.  If this team comes together, it could be one of the best ever.  The WW v WMN games are going to be barn burners.  UPS looked decent against EWU.  Should be a fun year if any team in Oregon decides to play basketball this year.  

[madzillagd]

I'm not sure I completely agree with B4's point but I do agree to some extent in terms of how high any NWC (and you can extend that to SCIAC too) gets ranked.  I've had issues the past couple of years at times with the WW ranking because I thought they were ranked much too high based on the competition they were playing.  I've voiced it on the Top 25 board and had some good conversations with Dave and others if I recall.

Obviously there's a geographical issue at play but the reality is that with the competition the NWC and SCIAC play during the year, I don't think any of their teams should be cracking the Top 10 unless they play some non-conference games against top competition and win.  It just doesn't make sense to me to have WW get ranked top 10 many years and lose earlier in the tournament than expected. There is a glass-ceiling of sorts for the SCIAC teams, you just don't see them ranked up that high even if they do win and I think that makes sense.

Here's recent history in terms of WW's ranking going into the tournament and the final season ranking.
Year       WK 13/14      Final
13-14:        12               17
12-13:         6                11
11-12:         7                10
10-11:         1                 5
09-10:         4                 7
08-09:         21              24
07-08:        NR               NR
06-07:        11                9

You have to go back 8 years for the last time WW went into the tournament and actually improved their ranking.  Most years it's been a step back of at least 3 spots and the last couple they've dropped 5 spots.  I'm not sure how voters justify a #4 team winning one single tournament game, not making the Elite 8 and still getting a #7 ranking in the final poll.  For me it would make much more sense in an average year that they don't get any higher than 10 or 12.  Then if/when they lose in the tournament in the 2nd or 3rd round the ranking makes perfect sense.

[A Buc Forever]

All the pre-and post tournament rankings prove is how hard it is to make it through the D3 tournament when you are a West Coast team--or from anywhere for that matter. For example the number one ranked team that ended up number five lost to a team that in a true seeded tournament would've been given a number one seed and those two teams would not of met until the final four. They also had to play that team on their home court. Speaking of home-court advantage, whitworth has only lost one tournament game on their home court it was to the eventual national champion. In general Northwest conference teams have been under ranked and in my opinion, when it comes to basketball play off selection I think more Northwest teams should have been included in the past.  When it comes to football playoff selection, Northwest teams have really gotten the short end of the stick--that's not even arguable.

[madzillagd]

I think the limited success of the NWC teams in the tournament is preventing them from getting more teams in.  If your top team is getting a bye the first round, then only winning one game then there isn't going to be a big push to get more teams in.  At some point you have to win on the road.  If you look at the teams that have played in the Championship game and in the Final Four, there is a good number of them that got there winning on the road. 

Regardless, my initial point was about the rankings and I think what you brought up actually adds to what I'm saying.  You know WW is going to have a tough time in the tournament and they will likely get knocked out relatively early on based on the system we have, so why rank them so high?  That's the part I don't get.  It seems like the voters have it right every preseason, then throughout the year they lose track of that thought.  If you look at the last five years WW's preseason rankings have been 12, 14, 12, 16, 16.  That makes perfect sense to me, I just don't think that if/when they play an average schedule and win why move them up throughout the year?  Keep them in that range and when they drop out of the tournament in Round 2 or 3 they were that #12-16 team in the country that they thought they'd be at the beginning of the year.   

[Pat Coleman]

I think the limited success of the NWC teams in the tournament is preventing them from getting more teams in.

This is not really a factor at all. There haven't been a lot of borderline NCAA Tournament teams in the NWC that might have been pushed over the top by perception.

One thing that is different out in this part of Division III compared to New England is that these teams are almost always on the road after the first weekend, and usually sent to a highly seeded team, sometimes all the way across the country. It's a fact of life on the D-III islands.

[A Buc Forever]

madzillagd,

I think WW has played as tough a schedule as they have been able to get.  One year they played three Wisconsin teams--beat two of them and one of them was ranked #2 in the nation when they beat them. What more do you want?  Your complaints are completely off base at this point. Pat Coleman's point is valid--being in a D3 island makes for a tough rode in the tournament.

[madzillagd]

Completely understand the geography of it all.  I went to a SCIAC school, nephew goes to a SCIAC school now, niece at a NWC school now, and immediate family all graduated from NWC school. Seems like that should be taken into consideration in the rankings knowing that a team with a tougher travel/schedule is less likely to finish in the top 10 at the end of the year, at no fault of their own.

[blackhawks4]

There's really no argument to rank the NWC teams higher or put more than one NWC team in the tournament. We flat out are not as good as the other conferences, hence my urging for WW to be better and not rest their laurels on conf. championships. What do I mean? Allow me to give 3 examples:

1. LC--in the Scott Davis, Orior, Meitus, etc. days with Gaylord--heck of a team and coach
2. UPS's run when Bridgeland took them to Elite 8's based on pure recruiting being an early adapter to a style of play that changed basketball forever
3. Hayford landing Taylor from Montana--the best player the conference has seen. Hayford even had some teams of depew, Olson, Avery, williams.

In all 3 cases, something extraordinary happened--and it showed on a national level. Not quite a title, but close. The NWC has had nothing close to that lately. WMN is close.

[TryMeTeam]

Black...

Well said!  I especially like the part about resting on laurels, except...that sounds like they are doing it on purpose.  It takes a tremendous effort to get any talented kids into a NWC school.  And a lotta luck!  You can do it all right and come up with average and do little right and come up with aces. 

Gaillard had the benefit of a massive recruiting effort that few other coaches performed, at the time.  Bridgeland learned that at his time at LC and probably outworked Gaillard, no small feat.  Hayford raised it to a new level and had some locational and financial advantages.  They were able to pool the talent.  It seemed like a lot of coaches and programs were happy to make the league playoff, and contending for the title was not in their sights. 

Then the rest of the league started catching up.  Now we have a pretty talented group of coaches!  Logie and Bridgeland are proven, Lunt is getting there, Cleary is moving to the top, I like what Hamilton is doing at Fox (too early to tell for sure), and I think Rosenberg will establish himself at Linfield. 

The options for the players are now wider (all schools are good academically, now good coaches, programs, etc), the above average to great kids are more dispersed, and average players that have been enrolled too many times to fill in the numbers, will no longer be needed.  And maybe, just maybe, the NWC teams are looking more attractive to the recruits. 

I now see coaches/programs who no longer appear satisfied to finish in the top half of the league or just to make the league playoff.  They are coming after the title!  This is good news for the league's reputation!

[(509)Rat]

15 min left in the 2nd half, Whitworth beating D'Youville...69-20

[A Buc Forever]

Why was Whitworth playing D'Youville?  They were 1-24 last year.  You only get 25 games in DIII--waste of a game!!!