MBB: Northwest Conference

[HoopsCoachG]

Dave,
Thanks for the great insights and the history lesson. I know that Whitworth has been good for a long time, but I have not really followed them until this year so what you have shared is greatly appreciated. Also, is there info available for the D3hoops.com Classic (schedule and links)? Can not go this year but want to be able to watch some games.

Thanks Again!

[Andy Jamison - Walla Walla Wildcat]

Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's. 

[(509)Rat]

Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's.

I thought I told you all, logic and reason have no place here...it won't work.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Dave,
Thanks for the great insights and the history lesson. I know that Whitworth has been good for a long time, but I have not really followed them until this year so what you have shared is greatly appreciated. Also, is there info available for the D3hoops.com Classic (schedule and links)? Can not go this year but want to be able to watch some games.

Thanks Again!

You are welcome.

As for the D3hoops.com Classic... we will have stuff compiled, yes. All of us are a bit overwhelmed with the cross-over of football and basketball - almost two months of back-and-forth thinking (or trying to think)... I suspect Pat will have that organized sometime early next week once we have all returned from Salem and the football championships.

Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's. 

Now sure who you are referring to... but it was brought up the history of Division III basketball and it goes back to 1975.

[(509)Rat]

AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer

[A Buc Forever]

It doesn't look like LF is for real this year, although they have won more games than I would have predicted. However, PLU looks for real. Has anyone seen them play?

My prediction for this year:  WW goes undefeated for the complete regular season.  Their toughest games left will be Whitman. This looks like the quickest WW team I've ever seen.  If WM tries to press like they usually do, I think WW will exploit it.  So, my prediction is an undefeated season, win the NWC tournament, and go onto the NCAA tourney.  How will they do in the tournament?  I'm predicting final four this year.

Blackhawks,

Wil that make you happy.   

[blackhawks4]

Forgive me for thinking that WW, the NWC, and the West Coast need to prove we belong before anointing a team #2 in the rankings.  I just wanted a shred of data, any statistic.  But there's none to back-up the argument.  Instead, I got "Can't knock them for that" losses, 2 wins over #10-15 ranked teams in a 10 year span, a raising the bar tangent, and the hyenas out to scavenge. 

I'm predicting final four this year.

Wait, A Buc not #2?  McHugh needs to talk some sense into you.

I thought I told you all, logic and reason have no place here...it won't work.

You have logic for#2, Rat?

Dude... going back to 1975... hello.... the NWC was NAIA until the late 1990's.

"Dude"...read the post. The west coast hasn't won in D3...EVER...I think we got LC in the final 4 in 1999??  (Note: I didn't check this data)

Moving forward....Look, I don't have anything against WW other than they've won the conference 10 years in a row and I'd prefer to see WMN do it instead...which sort of makes them the antichrist to me. 

WW gets to deal with a little instability this year and that intrigues me (meshing Grant's return after not playing for a long time & Love off injury, with Valle taking a larger role, no real post presence, an emerging point guard, who starts, who doesn't, who shoots and how much, and lastly, is extra slim fit too slim in men's coachwear?).

I am VERY excited for LC to play Augustana!  #1 in the nation.  Huge game!

I'm also interested to see the George Fox/Cal Lu score to see if I've over-ranked Cal Lu.  I also LOVE that WW is going to Vegas this year, but its disappointing that they appear to be catching their opponents in down years.

On the WMN/WW front, hard to get excite for the Millsaps slaughtering this weekend 

[blackhawks4]

AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer

3 teams in 4 years? I dunno. It's kinda like being the best man at your buddy's third wedding. You're hoping for the best, but, well, ya know...what happened the first two times?

My prediction for this year:  WW goes undefeated for the complete regular season.  Their toughest games left will be Whitman.

Not likley, A Buc.  But not asinine.  WW and WMN probably match up 3x.  If we're playing the percentages, I don't see it.  Both finish with 20+ wins. 

[HoopsCoachG]

AJ Grant will be playing for Whitworth this Saturday. Will be interesting to see how he gets worked in the rotation...and the rich get richer

3 teams in 4 years? I dunno. It's kinda like being the best man at your buddy's third wedding. You're hoping for the best, but, well, ya know...what happened the first two times?

Blackhawks,

Here is what happened. Just so you know, AJ has only played for George Fox. He was recruited hard by Whitman and ended up going there after high school.  It did not take long for him to realize the program was not what it appeared to be from the outside and that he could not be there. He withdrew without record having never practiced or played for Whitman.

When he came back he had several offers from NAIA schools, but decided to stay home and enroll at George Fox. Since he was not going to play that year, he helped coach at his old high school. During a practice, he got undercut and landed on the floor head first. He had a major concussion that forced him to medically withdraw from school.  He got no credits his first year out of high school.

In January of his first year playing, he reinjured his right shoulder, played through it but suffered another major concussion that once again forced him to medically withdraw. He had his 3rd shoulder surgery and got ready for the next year.

He had a very good 2nd season highlighted by a win at #3 Whitworth and a trip to the league tournament. With everyone coming back, there was a lot to look forward too. During that Summer, Fox fired COY Mark Sundquist and brought in "The Shark".

Although he had a very good statistical season and was selected 1st Team All-Conference, it was an extremely frustrating year for him. There are too many things to mention and this is not really the place for it anyhow. Let's just say that with 2 first teamers and 1 2nd teamer for them to miss the league tournament ... frustrating.

AJ thought very seriously about going somewhere else, but because it was to be his senior season, he decided to stick it out. After he reinjured his shoulder again and had to have a 4th surgery, things happened to make him re-assess what he would do. It was made very clear to him that players not recruited by this coach would not be welcome back the next year. The decision was made to find somewhere else to finish his college career.

He looked at all of the schools in the NWC and felt like Whitworth was the best fit academically and athletically. When he contacted them, they were very cautious.They began checking into eligibility for him. Even though he withdrew without record from Whitman and missed 3 semesters at Fox for medical reasons, the NCAA did not give him any semesters back, thus the reason he is ineligible until Saturday. Even so, they were excited to get him. Although he knew he could not play until December, he moved to Spokane in July so he could work out with the players that were around.

Since he was in Kindergarten, all he wanted was to play basketball in college. Now he just wants to finish his career with a positive experience. He does not really care if he only gets 5 minutes a game, he is excited to be part of the Whitworth program.

This may be more than you cared to know, but you did ask. Believe me, I could give you all the details but again, this is not the place for that. Know that we are happy because he is happy. And yes, I am AJ's dad.

[blackhawks4]

Sounds like he's overcome a lot of adversity.  Good luck to AJ.  Wish him and his team a great year with a 2nd place finish 

[blackhawks4]

Have this WW game on in the background.   It's 48-22.  Seriously, how does Augustana make a trip to the Northwest and WW and WMN don't have a game with them? 

[(509)Rat]

I shudder to think where the Clemson football team would be ranked this year if pollsters and the playoff committee took historical data from the past 10-15 years into account. As if the performance of completely different players have any bearing on the success or projected success of a current team's roster...

I think it's fair to question why Whitworth couldn't get Augustana to Spokane, as it shouldn't be cost prohibitive compared to Portland (where they will be flying out of). But you can never question a team who doesn't have the desire or the financial means to get to Walla Walla. Closest you can get is Pasco (more expensive flight with limited departure/arrival times) and then you still have to bus an hour. But I agree with you on this one. Would have been great to see how they match up with the clear #1/favorite in d3

[blackhawks4]

I shudder to think where the Clemson football team would be ranked this year if pollsters and the playoff committee took historical data from the past 10-15 years into account. As if the performance of completely different players have any bearing on the success or projected success of a current team's roster...

I'm at a loss for words.  Which, I know, seems odd.  Somehow Rat et al., you manage to miss the point completely.  It really astounds me.  It makes me think you're doing it on purpose.  But from what you're posting above, you clearly don't understand the point here.  Here goes for the last time:  Clemson plays in a nationally distinguished conference.  Teams from their conference win national titles.  For example, Florida State.  Clemson plays and beats nationally ranked competition.  For example, Notre Dame.  Our conference, the NWC, has never...ever...ever....competed for a national title, nor do we beat nationally ranked teams.  Therefore, I find it hard to rank our team #2 in the country, when in the history of our conference, we have never won the title, never been the runner-up, and unless someone has other info, been in the final 4 one time, 15 years ago.  (Please save the "this isn't football" and "this isn't D1" arguments.  We danced that dance last year.  I believe the example above, using Rat's analogy, properly illustrates the message I am trying to convey.) 

I am a fan of this conference, I want to be ranked #2, I just dont think we've shown we deserve it.  Really trying to move on from this argument, and I may have found the perfect segway... 

I think it's fair to question why Whitworth couldn't get Augustana to Spokane...But I agree with you on this one.

Dun-Dun-Duuun!  I've always liked you, Rat.

I don't know the ins-and-outs.  Maybe there's another reason, like a last minute schedule change or something.  BUT it kinda looks to me like someone is dodging someone.  Either both the Whits dodging Augustana, or vice versa.  And WMN is harder to get to, but that seems like a minor detail.  Could have flown into Spokane, played WW on Friday, drove out to WMN on Saturday, played on Sunday, drove back to Spokane after the game and flown out.

[(509)Rat]

No, I get it. Clemson gets credit because Jameis Winston won a national championship at Florida State and they happen to play in the same conference. And polls, which are compromised of a group of voters who are supposed to evaluate current (if not future) outcomes/success, should instead take into account not only an individual team's historical success but also the success of other teams in their conference.

[PirateDaddy]

" Clemson plays in a nationally distinguished conference.  Teams from their conference win national titles.  For example, Florida State.  Clemson plays and beats nationally ranked competition.  For example, Notre Dame.  Our conference, the NWC, has never...ever...ever....competed for a national title, nor do we beat nationally ranked teams.  Therefore, I find it hard to rank our team #2 in the country, when in the history of our conference, we have never won the title..."

So if I'm understanding your point blackhawks4, your issue is not understanding how anyone from this conference could #2 based on the conference's overall record on the national level.  In other words, you would be equally as flummoxed should Whitman be the one with the #2 ranking.  Have I got that correct?

It's truly an honest question.  And if that is indeed your point I get what you're saying; past performance would appear to influence most national rankings especially early in the season. Your point might get lost in translation because it often sounds like your point is to merely take a jab at Whitworth and not the conference as a whole.