MBB: Northwest Conference

[NWCer]

Seattle Buc, Tillery as a first-teamer is no stretch, would be a crime if he isn't, there's more to it than stats - he averages 11 on a very balanced team and 5rpg is nothing to sneeze at - more than a number of starting post guys in the conference.  LC is a spread you out and isolate team with a lot of ball handlers so he's not making "the play" or "the pass" every possession the way a B. Williams or the little PG from Fox does, so his low assist average is not surprising.  He's the engine that makes them (conference co-champs- hottest team in league) go.

Tillery, B. Williams, Symes, Born, any could get POY, and all are deserving IMO.

[Gregory Sager]

In looking at the at large bids it also doesn't look like WW is any guarantee.  It would be tough to leave home a team with 22 wins

The overall record is irrelevant. Regional wins -- or, more specifically, regional winning percentage -- is what's important. A Whitworth loss to L&C in the NWC title game would drop the RW% of the Pirates down to .826 (19-4), which is still excellent and quite worthy of Pool C. However, the QOWI of the Pirates is currently 9.909, good for 36th in the nation, and it would drop with a loss to L&C. The whispers over in the Pool C room are that a QOWI of 10 are going to be needed to get a Pool C berth. Add that to the fact that Whitworth is only ranked sixth in the West Region at the moment, and you're looking at a team that's seriously on the bubble if it loses the game to determine the NWC's automatic bid.

and a few solid wins in pre season

Non-conference, not preseason.

I just hope that if they do win they are not shipped out to minnesota or SOCal because of budgeting issues.  In 2002 WW was hosed a bit when they won the NWC and the conference tourney and was sent to Gustavus Adolphus because it was cheaper to then bus them to Wisconsin rather than pay for the gusties to come to Spokane and then both to fly back if WW had won.   I don't think that the commitee realizes how important home court is in the Playoffs let alone the NCAA tourney.  I know money is a factor however in decision making and has to be.

I can almost guarantee that the sectional will be played somewhere other than on the West Coast. The only two West Coast teams that are ranked in the region are #5 Occidental and #6 Whitworth. Neither is high enough to warrant hosting a sectional, especially when the all-important travel costs are worked into the equation.

In fact, no matter who wins the NWC title game, I can foresee a situation in which the NWC rep and Oxy are the only West Coast representatives in the tournament. In that case, it'd be easy to imagine the two teams being paired against each other in a Thursday night opening round game (at whichever team ends up higher in the West Region rankings on Selection Sunday) and the winner then being shipped to play at a team that drew an opening-round bye, presumably UW-Stevens Point.

[Gregory Sager]

It's translators like you that caused the Punic Wars to last 120 years, Bob.

[UPSoundLogs]

First off,
Congrats to UPS on a solid season.  LC came up with a big win last night but 3rd place is pretty good for such a young Logger squad and Coach.  I know they will be back next year strong as ever. 

For the Saturday showdown with WW and LC....
  I gotta say that WW is the heavy favorite in this one, home court advantage is huge and now that they are healthy WW is a very talented team.  LC is a tough/physical/athletic team, but I think WW will be too much for them.  I also think the Bucs will have the best chance against national competition because they are bigger than LC, more experienced, and have a great guard in BWilliams.  Obviously, I will be cheering for whoever wins though(atleast smash the SCIAC )...good luck to both teams. 

As for the national tourney...
I can all but guarantee there will be no at large bid for the NWC.  Additionally, I definitely agree with Oxybob, there is no way Oxy or WW(or should I say the SCIAC or NWC) will host a regional this year.  Niether team is ranked high enough in region, nor gets enough respect nationally to host.  Plus UW Stevens Point is back as a powerhouse which means whoever wins the SCIAC vs NWC showdown is sent as a sacraficial lamb to be dominated by the Pointers...have fun with that by the way, being a UPS fan, we just love those Pointers !!!

[bigfella]

The game last night was a great one to watch.  As a basketball fan, it was good to see coaches make adjustments, even when they just played five or so days ago.  UPS bringing their guards to the front court to pressure instead of having Foster at the point of the press.  And, Gaillard adjusting to that and bringing in a third and fourth ball handler to take away that pressure.  it is the little things that changes games.  UPS didn't score a field goal for almost nine minutes in the second half.  LC turned up the defense and got to the UPS shooters, while keeping the ball from the inside. 

Some say if LC plays the way they did last night they won't win Saturday and I disagree.  If some thought the game game was sloppy with missed shots and turnovers, you were right, and you would understand playing one team within a week is the hardest thing to do.

Whoever makes it out is going to have a tough time because the tourney is set up for the teams back east to win.  Congrats to UPS for what they have done  in recent years to bring more games to our coast.  The only team from our league to make it will be the one who wins on Saturday.  If LC would not have lost to Cal Lutheran, then maybe there could have been a chance, but not now.

But, in a one game situation, I would not count againt Bob Gaillard, no matter where the game is played.  He prepares his teams to get down.  No disrespect to the other coaches around, but if you look at the history of LC inthe play-offs at Wisconsin schools, the games have been there to win.  So, I think LC is better suited to win on the road out there.

Lastly, whoever doesn't think Tillery is a first teamer needs to call a couple(all) of the head coaches in this league.  I am sure they will tell you what the deal is.  That kid can flat out go.  With or without a "jumper" he is a HOG on the court.  As U of Portland, Hawaii Hilo, U or Oregon........  He gets down, especially in the big game.

[D O.C.]

Linfield (even though they were picked to finish last, how can a place with those resources be so bad?)

I am not kicking a dead horse at this moment.

don't think it really matters about Linfield (being a Boxer fan and having them dominate us for so long, feels good seeing them struggle.)

Cannot blame you. One must take the sour with the sweet when our tongues are so equipped.

So with a neutral mode on I would like to see a playoff game hosted in SoCal for the selfish reason that I can watch it.

[bucs77]

sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.

[(509)Rat]

Wow, I don't post for a little over a day and this board really heats up.  There's too much to comment on everything but a few things that I remember thinking as I read is that...if UPS only gets one player named as first team all-conference it will (and should) be Foster.  I agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.  Finally, Whitworth over LC at home...63-57.  Like Bucs and pineconefan have said, this Whitworth team is back at full strength (health wise) and have played well in their last couple of games, I wouldn't look for them to let up at home.

[bigfella]

I have to apologize for my missed assessment of Jason Foster.  He played like a warrior last night.  I always thought that we was great, but be took it a step further.  It only makes me think, "why isn't he the focus of their offense???"
Foster had one play run for him all night, and it was a make shift post up play. 

And, why isn't Pickney more of a player there?  He is a freak athlete and plays extremely hard?

[UPSoundLogs]

Bigfella,

I'm glad you were able to re-assess your opinion of Foster by seeing him play again last night.  He is a great player and I was slightly confused as to why you didn't think he was a crucial part of the UPS squad.  I don't think he gets many offensive plays ran for him in part because of the UPS "run and gun" system and also in part because they have so many other offensive options(Awilliams, Delong,Krauel,Marsh, etc).  However, I think for UPS to get the most out of their team next season they need to realize who their go to guys are and make a point of getting them the ball more(Foster and Krauel).  The other guys may take a slide in their stats but the team will be better as a whole. 

As for Pinkney, you are right he is very talanted and athletic...he really just needs to get more confidence out on the floor.  Right now he doesn't get enough playing time to get comfortable.  It's kind of funny because everyone sees how effective he is when he gets the chance to play... yet he never gets much consistent playing time to prove himself.  Hopefully adjustments will be made and he will find a more significant role in the Logger rotation next season. 

Once again...Great season Loggers!

[bigfella]

I always have felt that Foster was crucial to that team, but 1st team crucial was the question.  The make-up of the team showed that the totem pole went from little 22, to Krauel, to Marsh, so on, so forth.  Therefore, their touches increased in more important times, when those it should have probably have gone to Foster.  First team doesn't always mean stats.  It is the importance of that player to his team added into the stats. 

Last night, Foster, with no plays run for him, went to work and kept them in the game when it got dicey.  When ALL others were ineffective, he manned up and went to work.  Stats don't show it, but he put put fouls on guys, made tough plays, and showed why he is a first teamer.

[Gregory Sager]

sager,
            my 22 wins comment was based on the fact that you only play about 25-26 games before playoffs which would mean a good winning percentage.  And as for all the travel talk I hop whatever happens saturday WW gets sent to mexico to play againts the mexican national team while oxy has to play the canadians, then assuming they both win, they can play eachother.

Don't set your sights so low. Hope for the Belize regional for your Pirates.

I agree with OxyBob that we in the West get screwed...didn't UPS make enough of a run last year in the tourney to garner us some respect?  But then again it would cost the NCAA way too much money to fly the midwest teams to so-cal or spokane...and we all now the NCAA can't stand to lose a few thousand dollars, their whole organization would crumble.

As much as I enjoy reading all the paranoid rumblings that emanate from the left-coasters every year around this time, it's not as simple as being a matter of "respect" or lack thereof. The five primary criteria listed in the D3 men's basketball championship handbook that are used for selection and seeding purposes do not include "respect" among them. Those criteria are:

* regional winning percentage
* regional Quality of Wins Index
* in-region record against ranked teams
* in-region record head-to-head
* in-region record against common opponents

According to those criteria, Oxy is currently fifth in the West Region and Whitworth is currently sixth. That's a recipe for some fairly low seeding for both teams. Even if the Pirates join the Tigers in the D3 tourney field, neither will be seeded high enough to merit hosting a secondary-round game or games.

Of course, seeds don't always matter where the West Coast teams are concerned, and, yes, that's a matter of geography. Geography does trump seeding -- the handbook even admits that -- but this year it's a moot point. While it's easy to grumble about the NCAA not being amenable to incur the extra expense of flying multiple midwestern teams to NWC or SCIAC venues, keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

[cawcdad]

. . ., keep in mind that the D3 tournament is a money-loser for the NCAA. Like just about everything else the NCAA sponsors, our tournament is funded by the D1 tourney, which is the NCAA's big cash cow. As the old saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

And to that end, I have tickets to the first two rounds of the D-I tournament in order to help out D-III playoffs. And yes I know, most of the money comes from television.

[bucs77]

sager,
           Thanks for the info on what exactly goes into the process besides QOWI.    I think d3 needs to do something about trying to be like d1.  We should have more scandals and plant "mushrooms" in our players' cars.  I think the extra attention will get the ball rolling

[bbaddict]

Bucs77 - I saw your comment on the SCIAC site about Wecker & you're right, he's a great coach.  He's also the Co-Coach of the Pirates, not an Assistant.  Thought someone should update you on that -- it happened last year or the year before, I believe.

By the way, I agree with you that the NWC gets ripped on the strength of schedule thing.  Not sure what can change to improve things, but someone should figure it out.