MBB: Northwest Conference

[(509)Rat]

Thanks Logs...thats pretty unbelievable.  But life goes on, and next season will still happen so its kind of a dumb thing to dwell on.  Whitworth appaerently already has a few commits from some Juco players and is expecting to bring in about 8 new players.  Haven't heard anything about any of them but this season has to have helped the recruiting process a bit. 

[bigfella]

Just read the article and it just looks like a poor choice of words, but I don't think it should be taken as hard as people are.  Stevens Point and that conference is tough.  Watching how they did UPS at UPS, I would say they were a good DII.  They are good for DIII, but that talent would beat lots of DII's around here.  Let's be real.  Western Oregon, Northwest Nazarene, etc... 

Anyways, you put a mic infront of a coach who just lost an emotional game.  Give the guy a break.  COY's get that pass, right??

[bbaddict]

On a completely unrelated note, you know how people in WA and OR despise the people who move up there from SoCal? Will the fact that I've lived here for the last year and a half since college (despite being a native of Virginia who has always wanted to live in the Pacific Northwest) hinder my social life if I ever finally get up there? Just curious...

Not all people from Oregon despise people from SoCal -- just the ones who migrated here so long ago (from CA) that they've forgotten where they came from.  Actually, you'll miss the sun & probably want to move back.  If you do move here, just tell everyone you're from Virginia & get your driver's license and car license changed right away.   You'll meet so many people from California, that you'll forget you live in Oregon!  Can't speak for WA.

Regarding Coach Hayford's remarks (if he made them).  He can be emotional & you have to cut him some slack, they lost that 2nd game by 2 points.  Of course he might've said some things he shouldn't have, but he's still a good coach & the team put forth a great effort!   The NWC should be proud of the Bucs and their coaches!

And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not going to defend anything I said in my post but some of you need to read it a little more closely...especially the wheaton poster.  Anyways, did anyone actually see where that interview came from?  The Washington U. student paper.  This raises two questions...why would Hayford do an interview during a national tourney with a student at Washington U.?  And, does anyone actually have a link to the paper where the quote came from and who wrote the article?  This is starting to sound more and more like a load of Bull, but it doesn't matter now cuz it has been posted.

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

509, the link is all around. Check other boards. It was actually printed.

[John Gleich]

And, why doesn't the WIAC see it as a compliment that someone thinks they should play DII?  I've thought that about Linfield football for years!  It's not like someone said they should play the JC bracket!

There's an extreme difference between "could compete with DII teams" and "should move to DII."  The first could definately be seen as a compliment; the Pointers and others in their conference are good enough to compete with schools that offer scholarships and the implication is that DII teams are better because of this fact.  The second has tinges of elitism or jealousy... it implies that the WIAC isn't wanted in DIII, and I think this all stems from the success of the WIAC as opposed to anything else.  If the WIAC wasn't competing on a high level in so many sports, though the realities of the schools would be the same (all being larger, public schools as opposed to private, etc, etc...)... and there wouldn't be people tramping down the path of this discussion over and over again.  The WIAC is NOT the only conference of public schools.  There are public schools in Pennsylvania in DIII.  There are entire conferences of CUNY (City University of New York) and SUNY (State University of New York) schools in DIII.  The NJAC is a conference of public schools in New Jersey.  But you don't hear people making these same comments about these schools and conferences that are made, all the time.

And the thing about it is... as has been noted by CCIW posters who have added their comments to this discussion... the WIAC is not infallible.  The CCIW alone in the 2006 calendar year went 6-1 against the WIAC.  Thought the WIAC got 3 bids last season in the NCAA tournament, no team got beyond the second round.  But individual WIAC schools aren't even the most dominant in the country across DIII athletics...!

If you look at the Director's Cup standings (found HERE), there are some WIAC schools in the top 20... but not in the top 11.  There are two NESCAC teams in the top six.  There are two UAA teams in the top 9.  The Director's Cup is only one way to see how schools compete across all DIII sports... but there has never been a WIAC school at the top of the Director's Cup standings.  Williams College (MA) has won 10 of the last 11 Director's Cup standings.  They currently stand 6th... but they were 6th after the Fall sports last year and still won by over 100 points.  The top WIAC team?  UWSP, at 22nd in the country.  Now, Point was 5th in the country the previous two seasons, but simply stating that the WIAC *should* be DIII sounds like sour beans.

And stating that the WIAC has more in common with DII teams isn't the case either.  I gave plenty of examples of public schools, and there's another striking difference... the WIAC DOES NOT GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS.  The WIAC plays by the same rules as everyone else.

[bigfella]

Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

You guys are talking as if Hayford has ordered a code red on the WIAC.  I wonder how much offense the Steven's Point coach took offense.  Does anyone know?

Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.

[diehardfan]

Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.

Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page!

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here

[Pat Coleman]

Pat -

Uh, the postgame press conference maybe?

And, in these post game conferences, you hear some of the most outlandish comments, too.  Basketball is emotional and you need time to calm down most times.  We have all seen it before.   

And note I'm not foolish enough to state with veracity that it was said, only that it was printed.

It's a good thing the NCAA mandates a 10-minute cooling-off period. Who knows what people might say if asked immediately after the game.

[John Gleich]

Are there any DIIs in Wisconsin?  Any NAIAs?  is it true that you either go DI or DIII?  I've never really looked into it.

Sigh.... I posted the details on the previous page!

Wisconsion doesn't have a ton of DIIs or NAIA institutions, but the statement "you either go DI or DIII is certainly hyperbole.

See even more specifics here

There ARE D-II schools in Minnesota and Michigan that occasionally lure Wisconsin athletes away from the WIAC schools... there are three Wisconsinites on Michigan Tech's roster, and three on Northern Michigan's roster, Winona State has 7 players from Wisconsin on their roster.  These are just a few examples... but when you look at the number of athletes in Wisconsin schools who graduate in a particular year, there are lots... and not a whole lot of places to go play.  Plus, lots of players do choose to stay closer to home as opposed to going far away... a prime example of this is Amanda Nechucta, who was from about 10 miles away from SP, and could have probably gone D-1 to play somewhere but stayed close to home and was an All-American basketball player and also an All-American in track as well.  Had she gone "big time," she probably would not have had the opportunity to do two sports.

[bigfella]

So it could be safe to say that in Wisconsin, there are less schools to fight for the better, non-DI type players?  As stated, there are players who go away to school, but for Wisconsin talent, the DIIIs don't have to battle as much with DIIs that might be right there recruiting the same person?  Is it only the WIAC battling for the most part?

[Pat Coleman]

The state has reciprocal tuition agreements with state schools in Illinois and Minnesota, IIRC. There's a lot of students who flow over the border.

Winona State, the defending D-II champ, has a bunch of Wisconsin kids playing key roles, for example. They're just across the river in Minnesota.

[John Gleich]

Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

[Just Bill]

Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.

[Ralph Turner]

Actually, there isnt' reciprocity with IL.  Certain campuses have reciprocity, but the U of Wisc system as a whole does not.  You are correct, though, MN does have reciprocity, which aids schools on the Western half of the state (River Fall, Stout, Eau Claire, La Crosse) the most.

In fact, a Wisconsin resident can attend a Minnesota public university for LESS than a Minnesota resident can.  As you can imagine our Maroon and Gold neighbors are rather up-in-arms and eager to renegotiate over that one.

For real?

Is that one of those new-fangled illegal alien amnesty programs?

Golly-gee! 8)

[Just Bill]

Yes, it's true.  The price was paid was based on the tuition at your home state's flagship school (UW-Madison or UM-Twin Cities).  However, the Minnesota legislature raised their tuition at a much steeper rate than Wisconsin did.  So a Wisconsin resident can go to U of M and pay what he/she would pay at UW-Madison.

The Minnesota state legislature really hung the U of M out to dry on this one.  Now the U of M is trying to cancel the agreement early and renegotiate, but as you can imagine, Wisconsin isn't particularily interested.