MBB: Northwest Conference

[formercat]

To me, the flex is an offense you use when you have limited talent, and Wil has had a lot more than that. 

Gonzaga uses the flex offense and it seems to me they have been a very successful and talented team

[UPS Zeddy]

TMT-  Whoa whoa whoa. I'm gonna need you to take a 30 second timeout here.  Don't get me wrong, I love to stir the pot...and I love that you're fired up already in September...but to say that Bridgeland is gonna make UPS his JV team soon? Not only is that a low-blow, but it's downright foolish.  First of all, UPS doesn't dread any road trip. Loggers want to be challenged. Loggers welcome adversity. Secondly, if you believe everything you read in Whitman's recruiting story, you're probably the guy that thinks that strippers are in to you.  I don't doubt that Bridgeland is bringing good talent in this year, but the guy is talking like Chris Webber, Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose just showed up in Walla Walla.  And thirdly, you're talking about the defending CHAMPS. It took all 18 of those guys to get it done last year, and regardless of who has graduated, there are plenty of them coming back who know how to win. 
As for your Gordie comment, I appreciate any argument that is made logically and legitimately defended. No bones to pick with you there, even though I think Gordie was a helluva coach and even better guy.   

FormerCat: No love for any of the Loggers on your pre-season all NWC team?  Ask Riley if he had fun trying to guard Austin Boyce in the national tournament game last season. And your boy Shaw from Whitman had a 27/70 assist/turnover ratio last season in conference play. In two games against UPS, he had 1 assist and 15 turnovers. Just sayin'. 

[formercat]

FormerCat: No love for any of the Loggers on your pre-season all NWC team?  Ask Riley if he had fun trying to guard Austin Boyce in the national tournament game last season. And your boy Shaw from Whitman had a 27/70 assist/turnover ratio last season in conference play. In two games against UPS, he had 1 assist and 15 turnovers. Just sayin'. 

Sorry you feel UPS got the shaft in my picks, but Austin Boyce was the fourth option last year. That means teams were more concerned with guarding 3 other people and there for I think he got a lot better looks than he will this year as possibly the number 1 option. Now you got the guy who was guarding Foster or Kraul or whoever a teams best defender is guarding Boyce and I just do not think that translates into the amount of success it takes to be on the 1st team. I like how upset you were too that I picked Brandon Shaw, that all of a sudden he and I became big homies in your mind. Kid put up almost 17 points and 4 rebounds a game as a freshman, pretty impressive. He was in a system that is very different from most any other place and was a young kid, so I believe there is a strong chance that those assist and turnover numbers will change with a year under his belt.

I see UPS fighting for a spot in the middle this year. They lost a ton and while you can say it took 18 players to get it done last year that is just a nice and polite thing to say that makes everyone feel good. Truth is it took Williams, Foster and Kraul to win those games and yes there were some guys that contributed at different times very nicely, but lets not get carried away.  Could UPS blow everyone away this year and win the conference? Yes, stranger things have happened. Is this likely to happen? No.

[Mr. Ypsi]

but the guy is talking like Chris Webber, Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose just showed up in Walla Walla.  

And as a Michigan fan, may I remind you that not only did Webber (the others were innocent) fail to bring a title (in fairness, they finished second in the country as both frosh and sophs), he brought down the first ever major sanctions on a Michigan athletic program.

Alas, they have not been the last.  I once took pride in Michigan being perhaps the cleanest program in all of d1.  I feel very violated.

[UPS Zeddy]

"They lost a ton and while you can say it took 18 players to get it done last year that is just a nice and polite thing to say that makes everyone feel good."   -formercat

Maybe it's that type of attitude that has kept Linfield from getting the job done.

I'm assuming that the name "formercat" means you're a retired Wildcat.  And I didn't say you and Shaw were "big homies" and I'm certainly not upset about it. I definitely think Shaw has game... just found it odd that you named multiple players from 6 different schools and left out the champs. That's all. 

I also think you underestimate Boyce's skills. Time will tell.

Mr. Ypsi- Don't let these latest allegations get you down.  As much as I don't like Rodriguez, it blows my mind that those players came out with that information.  I would want all the extra practice time I could get if I went 3-9.

[formercat]

If Williams, Kraul or Foster is coming back then I will definitely name someone from the champs to the 1st team.

And your boy Shaw from Whitman   

[TryMeTeam]

So, I took a full time out instead.  Bridgeland had almost no time to recruit last year and produced a very competitive team.  I doubt they would have finished as well if the Molitor had still been their coach.  Now you add a full year recruiting class to what he brought in last year, and I think everyone will dread that road trip this year.  I understand sugarcoating your recruits bios, but just looking at the facts (height, all-league honors, "high jump champion", etc), it looks like a very athletic incoming class.  Bridgeland can flat out recruit!  I will get my kudos and "told you sos" later for calling it here first.

I don't just stir up the pot for effect.  I have to believe what I am saying to put it down here.  I have to admit I do take delight when I believe my opinions will build fires.

I just love statistics, too:
Foster     15-pts     25 min/gm       Gone
Williams   13-         30-                   Gone
Krauel      14+        26+                 Gone
Boyce       11-         24-                  Back
Brown      7            13                    Gone
Levin        6+          13+                 Back
Everyone else:  less than 5 pts/gm

and it just goes downhill from there.  Boyce will get his share of points, he is a quality player.  But where will the support come from to compete in this league?  They will have plenty of players who have lots of minutes and experience, but only in supporting roles.  Sheldon could be a factor, but I don't see it.  I have to agree with Zeddy on this one.

And with formercat on Shaw, too.  He can just get his points anytime he wants to.  1st team, maybe a stretch, but it wouldn't be a surprise to me at all if he got it.

How did you know strippers like me?  I have been trying to keep that a secret!  

[NWCer]

Had to throw some Karma at you for that last one TMT....  I liked that...  Foster, Williams, and Krauel were SO good, the 15, 14, and 13ppg's don't even tell the whole story.

Go Boxers!

[TryMeTeam]

Part of the story is that they scored those points in fewer minutes than most stars with every team doing their best to shut them down using their best defensive players.  The other players were often open due to double teams on them.  On any other team, those 3 could have averaged 20 to 30 points per game and a lot more minutes.

[Pugetsoundfan]

I've been a UPS fan for many years, and love the team and the system and Coach Lunt.
This year's team is going to struggle.  Boyce is excellent.  The man has skills.  Nobody has mentioned Heyman, a really nice player--D1 potential--who was in the shadows last season because, frankly, UPS started the three best players in the NWC and let them do their thing. After that there are some very good role players (Colin K is the toughest guy to play at Puget Sound since the Bridgeland years; Shelton will be a strong rebounder and defender) and some talent that hasn't played....I don't know anything about the recruiting class....I think PS gets hammered on the road by lots of teams this year.  I think Whitworth is the class of the league--well-coached and Montgomery looks to me like the best player coming back to NWC.

[UPS Zeddy]

Pugetsoundfan- Just when I thought I'd be getting some help in here you come and deliver another shot! You think the Loggers will get "hammered on the road by lots of teams this year"

Are you kidding me? We go from 16-0 to getting steamrolled in Newberg? Where's the faith my man? Look, I'm not saying this year's squad is destined for a final four appearance, nor am I guaranteeing an undefeated conference season. All I am saying is that UPS has plenty of talent, very good coaching, and returners that know what it takes to win tough ball games.

Question for anybody who wants to answer: If my theory on it taking all 18 guys to did what the Loggers did last season is bogus, then why didn't the trio of Foster/Krauel/Williams get the job done their junior and sophomore years? Why were they 11-5 both of those seasons with zero NWC titles? 

TMT- I know Bridgeland can recruit. Believe me. And he's a damn good coach. I just thought the recruits page was a tad overboard. And maybe strippers do really like you.   

[TryMeTeam]

PSF:

You nailed it.  I like your assessment of the returning players as well as the impact of the 3.  The real question is how far those role players develop from last year into consistent contributors this year.  Straight forward talk from such a die hard fan.  Commendable!

Zed:

Getting hammered on the road by lots of teams doesn't mean all teams, and shouldn't mean Fox.  However, Fox has played them tough the last few years, even beating them a couple of years ago.  So you might want to pick another team than Fox for your point.

I agree, the recruiting page was WAY overblown, but if you read past that, it does look like a very good class.

Now here I go again!  F/K/W didn't win their soph and junior years because.... coaching.  There, I said it.  I don't know Lunt personally, but I thought UPS suffered from an inexperienced coach (not being ready to handle the head coaching job with no real head coaching background, especially a team with such high expectations), and maybe a lack of leadership.  They didn't seem as prepared those two years as they did last year.  Coaching stars like that is no easy task, and they were the stars of the league.  From the few games I did see, Lunt looked like he was trying to imitate Bridgeland, only being a lot more animated.  I thought he would have been better served to be more, not entirely, calm on the sidelines.  It didn't seem to help his team the first two years, but didn't seem to harm them last year.

Why the change?  I really don't know, it could have been Lunt gaining the experience needed to coach at this level.  But I think (key word here) it probably was F/K/W refusing to let another year, their last one, slip by.  They looked, and sounded on the radio, to be so motivated last year.   

This thought will play out or be rebuked this year.  If UPS can stay at the top and dominate the top teams again, I will have to have a big lunch on my words.  It not, PSF and I can say we called it here first.

[Pugetsoundfan]

Why weren't the Loggers more successful in the big 3's junior year?  I think there were two big factors.  First and foremost, the league had recruited to and coached to the UPS system--lesser teams were able to play with UPS because the Loggers were giving up lots of layups to teams that understood the press and were capable of beating it.  PLU came in with much, much less skilled players, exploited the press and played UPS very tight games.  On the other side, in the best Bridge years UPS had two or three great 3 ball shooters, so there was always one on the floor.  Two years ago UPS had Marsh, a good player and nice shooter who had some off games--and when he went to the bench, tired from running the press, there wasn't a dead three ball shooter to bring into replace him.  So the Logs are giving up layups on one end and aren't able to answer with 3s on the other. 

Brown was a valuable weapon for UPS last year, wanted to see more of him against St. Thomas.....he'll be missed.

[Pugetsoundfan]

As long as I'm up...let me respond to TryMeTeam on coaching.  Last season, the Loggers adapted the system to meet the league's adjustments.  UPS played halfcourt defense for the first time in a few years, and it was effective.  The measure of the team to my mind was that it crushed Whitworth in Spokane--no contest, baby.   The Pirates did manage to beat UPS in Tacoma on a night when the Loggers played badly.  The Loggers were smart, changed things up and kept opponents off balance, and were tough and together in the face of adversity.  Two years ago I saw finger-pointing when things went wrong.  Last year, I saw a tough team that got better when it was challenged.  Coach Lunt was awesome.



 

[TryMeTeam]

PSF:

I agree with your last post, but like the ending to a good movie gone bad, I didn't like your ending.  Or I should say it confused me.  Well written and then the blanket statement "Lunt was awesome".

I got the feeling that the first two years of his tenure, the "inmates were running the asylum" so to speak (just a saying, not making a statement).  The players appeared and sounded like they were doing their thing without guidance from the top man.  Last year, I couldn't tell if the reason for success was guidance had come from the top (there had to be some going to a half court game) or the players were more committed and just plain dominating. 

So if it was Lunt, how was he awesome?  Did he go from being inexperienced to competent after his first two years just like that? 

I am not sure the league recruited to handle UPS's press, although some of that probably happened.  But they seemed to scout, experience and made adjustments to handle it.  A full court press can be rendered somewhat ineffective once a team plays against it and learns how to beat it.  I think it was more successful by the talent level of UPS rather than their system.  The NWC is not that much more talented than the other teams UPS has faced in the pre-league games, but they seemed to do a better job against their press. 

I am not bashing Lunt.  I am not a fan of his sideline ranting, but I don't think I have seen him really coach yet.  I think we will get a more accurate feel of how good he is this year.

A final note.  I read Colin K's blog on the trip.  What an articulate, well spoken young man.  I thought he did a great job recounting that trip!  Although not blessed with the talent of the big 3, I love his hustle and drive.  A true asset to his team.  Well, of course I like him.  He is from OR.