MBB: Northwest Conference

[loggerfan1]

Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   

[John Gleich]

Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   

It's hard to judge a season by one game...  There clearly was a self-destruction that occurred  (absolutely aided by Witman, but things like missing free throws are mental, not physical iniquities)... but prior to that, Whitworth was in complete control of the game.

But, if you want to judge a season by one game, go ahead.  At Stevens Point, we played UPS twice, in back to back years, and beat 'em 100-79 and 81-63 in seasons where they averaged a bundle more.  They didn't look that special... if you just judge by those individual games.

[bbaddict]

Sorry, but after tracking the WW stuff on this board this year I have to do this.

O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D

I saw them play, and thought they were pretty good.  I hope they win the tournament.  But there have been several better teams in the NWC in recent years, most of them from Tacoma.   

S-O-U-R  G-R-A-P-E-S & D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L --- that's you, loggerfan!   This Whitworth team is the best the NWC has seen in years and definitely the real deal.  I hope they go far in the playoffs.     I think the bus ride did them in.

[playball]

Im not so sure I can agree with you Loggerfan.  While there have been good to great teams at UPS in the past, they had their weaknesses.  Their gimmicky type press they ran was always exploited when they went east for the tourny since a press doesn't work on good players.  Ever see a press in the NBA? Point was always able to take advantage of them. 
This years Whitworth team doesn't rely on anything strange or out of the ordinary.  They just play straight up and will bloody anyones nose.  No real weaknesses besides an underdeveloped post game, and that is only because they don't need one right now with the quality they have on the perimeter.  I think they will need to expand Felix's role down low in order to advance deeper into the playoffs. 

I personally hope Whitworth does well from here out once they get in the NCAA Tourney.  But I also wouldn't mind seeing 2 NWC teams there either.  So hopefully an upset in the conference title game?    Unlikely, but Whitman showed us all it was possible.

[LoggerNation4040]

a press doesn't work on good players

So...you're saying Whitworth didn't have good players a couple years ago when UPS ran the table?  Interesting. 

The only reason I bring this up is in response to bbaddict saying this Whitworth team is the best NWC squad in years...I gotta disagree there.  It's not me being a homer, and I DO think this Pirates team is very very good and obviously well-coached.  I just do not see them being able to match up well with 08-09 Loggers. Would Felix really be able to defend Foster on the perimeter for example?  I know they can shoot the hell out of the ball but without a Nakamura/Symes type player that's constantly attacking the teeth of the D, I think that the 08-09 Logs would have the slight edge...not to mention that the conference as a whole is undoubtedly down from where it was a couple years ago.  But hopefully it's back on the rise! 

Good luck to all tomorrow night....I'll be in P-town rooting on my Loggers.  Gotta finish strong! 

   

[playball]

I just do not see them being able to match up well with 08-09 Loggers. Would Felix really be able to defend Foster on the perimeter for example? 

Foster was a good player don't get me wrong, however a shooter he wasn't.  He shot a combined  39-124 from 3 his junior and senior seasons.  Not much reason for Felix to have to guard him out there. 

While I'm not sure this Whitworth team has a player with the versatility of Symes, Mike Taylor is close.  He shoots well and finishes at the basket.  And with Whitworth being so guard oriented, more so than last year, the UPS press would be broken which leads to easy baskets.  The 08-09 UPS team was not as good defensively in the half court which this Whitworth team would exploit.

[LoggerNation4040]

And with Whitworth being so guard oriented, more so than last year, the UPS press would be broken which leads to easy baskets.

The Loggers pressed considerably less that year than they had in the past...and while the Gebbers are high IQ guys and good shooters, they're not exactly lightning-quick "press busters." 

  The 08-09 UPS team was not as good defensively in the half court which this Whitworth team would exploit.

That is highly inaccurate. They led the conference in scoring defense (65.0ppg), were 2nd in FG defense (40.9%), and 1st in 3FG defense (28.6%). 

Agree to disagree I guess...That Logger squad would be too athletic for this year's Bucs to handle IMO.  Boy I'd love to see that match-up...maybe one day when they're all washed up they'll meet at a park or something 

[TryMeTeam]

My 2 cents:

This years WW team is one of the best defensive teams I have seen in a long time.  The UPS teams with the Big 3 (Foster, Kraul, and Wiliams) etal, would not have been able to do what they did against this WW team.  And this years' Pirate team would have been able to break the UPS press and score points under their pressure.  So I think this WW team is a little bit better.  And they are not overrated, or if so, only slightly.  I think their athleticism is underrated.

But really, aren't we just splitting hairs.  Both teams were/are very good.  I don't think either team was/is good enough to go all of the way.  It takes a good portion of luck to do that and none of the past teams have had that.  It waits to be seen if WW can do that this year. 

The loss to WC may end up helping this years team, but Playball is right, the lack of an established post presence will be their undoing.  Put Montgomery on this team and I would feel different about their chances.  I also agree with Playball about hoping they do well in the tourny. 

But getting two teams in does no good as they will be matched up early and one would be eliminated as it past years.  That is a real shame.  The big 3's last year at UPS, had the two teams been split up in the bracket, we would have seen how tough the NWC is as both would have gone a couple to more rounds into the tourny.  But it is too much about money. 

 

[LoggerNation4040]

Playball is right, the lack of an established post presence will be their undoing. Put Montgomery on this team and I would feel different about their chances.

Agreed.  He was a handful, that's for sure.  Two things about all of those title contenders from the Midwest that I've observed over the years is their rebounding and the ability to defend the 3-ball....which does not bode well for WW in the national tourney.  I think Taylor's ability to attack the rim and make plays will be critical for them.  Another issue will be the front court strength and physicality that WW will face out there assuming they get past whatever SCIAC cupcake they get.  Riley has always been a defensive liability for them and will no doubt be exposed against the UWSP's of the world. You can get away with him playing the 4 in the NWC, but not on the national level. 

But getting two teams in does no good as they will be matched up early and one would be eliminated as it past years.  That is a real shame.  The big 3's last year at UPS, had the two teams been split up in the bracket, we would have seen how tough the NWC is as both would have gone a couple to more rounds into the tourny.  But it is too much about money. 

Shame indeed.  Also a tough break that the Logs had to face #1 St.Thomas in the Sweet 16...but oh well.  The best team finds a way to the title.  No excuses!

[etule]

That loss will probably help WW in the tournament! They haven't played a tight game all year and they did not handle it well down the stretch!
Poor guys had to ride a bus to Walla Walla! I hope they recover in time for their next game!

[TryMeTeam]

'Bout time for Mr Coleman's "There is no east coast bias" post, isn't it?

[(509)Rat]

I don't get the feeling that LN4040 has seen this Whitworth team play more than once. Taylor is just as good as getting to the rim and when necessary pulling up for a mid range jumper as Symes was. And he probably shoots better from outside...Hayford found Pecht's replacement in Symes and now Symes replacement in Taylor. You are absolutely right about Riley's defense...but why would you not think 6'7" Loofburrow could be inserted into the lineup against a bigger WIAC team??

And if we are agreeing to disagree, the two Gebbers are the best defenders Whitworth has had in a long time. I would like either of their chances against a guy like Williams, who created a lot of offense for UPS by getting to the hoop and either finishing himself or finding the open shooter.

It would be a good game for sure. I think this Whitworth team is better than the 08-09 team and

As for the east coast bias? It probably doesn't exist...it's more of a spending $$$ bias. If only our government was as cheap as the NCAA lol

Isn't this board a lot more fun when people are talking?

[Keandre]

Williams from UPS would KILL the Gebbers brothers. He was way too fast and athletic. Neither one would be able to stay in front of him and contain. Also, on the defensive end, Williams would eat them up too. He had great body control, change of direction at full speed and his long arms cause every guard he played against problems. Taylor and Riley are what makes this team good, not the Gebbers. You take Taylor and Riley out and you have the Gebbers as your main guys? Those two would struggle and WW would be middle of the pack at best in the NWC.

[Pat Coleman]

'Bout time for Mr Coleman's "There is no east coast bias" post, isn't it?

Mr. Coleman has been voting Whitworth No. 1 since the first week of January. You tell me.

[TryMeTeam]

Dre:

Sorry, NO!  Williams was fast, but he only went to his right.  Wade would have slowed him way down.  Now Williams would get his points, but not 1 on 1 with the WW help defense, and he would have to work way hard to get them.  Granted the Gebbers are not the main components of the WW offense, but as I said, their strength is in the defense, and the guys providing the important defense are not the main offensive players.

Williams was quick, but the overall defensive pressure of his team is what caused turnovers and stops.  Had UPS played the way WW plays with Foster, Williams, etc., I believe they would have gone further in the playoffs.  They are/were similar teams, and as Playball has said, good teams with good ballhandlers ate up the press.

You take Williams and Foster out of the UPS mix and UPS does not win the NWC title.  For that matter, take the top two players off any team and see how they do.  
That's what makes Hayford and WW so good, the role players know and accept their roles.

Mr. Coleman, what took you so long!  We were wondering how many double digit, 20+ average point wins it would take for you to jump on the wagon!    Just wondering, where do you have them now?

Talking so much about a WA team is giving me a headache!