MBB: Northwest Conference

[Keandre]

(509)RAT, UPS has gotten better each year the last 3 years. They are 17-5 and 9-4 in league which is good for second behind Whitworth. None of that impresses you? But, I will say that this trend does have to keep up and with the guys they bring in, this can for sure see UPS in the top 3 each year for years to come.

Buc, you can also say this is what George Fox womens basketball must feel like too. Them girls can go!!!

[etule]

It has been a great run for WW but they also got lucky by getting M Taylor last year! Without him I don't think they win it last year. Most of NWC coaches bring in their own recruits ! Not to many JC or D1 transfers.WW in the past few years brought in some top notch JC transfers. And this year one from Belgium!
Not defending Lunt Im not a UPS fan but he is doing it with their own kids . The big guy from TCC but from T Town.
When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!

[A Buc Forever]

When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!

First of all, others are recruiting JC's and transfers, as well they should. LC had a great kid a couple years back that transferred in and would have been one of the best in the league except for some health problems. Fox has couple transfers.  Linfield has one.  The schools take transfers that are non-athletes as well. All elite schools take transfers (non-athletes as well as athletes--Stanford even has a separate pool for admission of transfer students). Some kids can't afford 4 years of Whitworth or UPS.  Sometimes things happen in their lives and they have to change schools (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=231641).   So don't think Whitworth's talent is there because the other coaches wouldn't have taken those kids. WW is not lowering their standards or not giving their kids a D3 experience in order to win.

Second, Lunt and Bridgeland recruit just as hard Hayford did.  Lunt and Robles at UPS are incredibly persistent recruiters.  The thing is with Hayford is he sets his sights on very high level kids, but he figures out ways to get them.  One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

As much as we like to think of success on the court being related to developing players, teamwork, etc. recruiting and fundraising really help.  The extra money Hayford brought in to fly players to Portland instead of bussing them probably helped with their success on the road.  Ask Playball how hard it is to travel on a bus 8 hours and then play a game the next day.  Nothing wrong with what WW with is doing with the kids they bring in.  In fact, I'd say that in the case of guys like Ryan Symes, taking transfers is a huge positive for the school, not just the basketball team.

[Bearcat Press]

One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

So you're telling me there's a chance?

[Gregory Sager]

It has been a great run for WW but they also got lucky by getting M Taylor last year! Without him I don't think they win it last year. Most of NWC coaches bring in their own recruits ! Not to many JC or D1 transfers.WW in the past few years brought in some top notch JC transfers. And this year one from Belgium!
Not defending Lunt Im not a UPS fan but he is doing it with their own kids . The big guy from TCC but from T Town.
When no one else is going that route road gets a little easier. Going to be a little tougher at Eastern where everyone recruits.
Winning is important and fun but The D3 expierence is much more than that!

I'm not sure that I care for your implication that transfers aren't recruited, or that they aren't as much a particular coach's recruits as are his four-year players. The first implication is definitely wrong, in most cases. And the second implication makes it sound as though transfers are red-headed stepchildren, as opposed to the favorite sons who are with the coaches from day one of freshman year. Can't say that I agree with that, either. Each coach is different. Each player is different. I've seen lots of transfer players and coaches who have developed extremely tight bonds, and I've seen plenty of four-year players who have never much cared for their coaches, and vice-versa.

[A Buc Forever]

One AAU coach I know complained that Hayford is like some unattractive guy that thinks he has a shot with Halle Berry.   Made me think about the fact that Hayford's wife is actually way better looking than he has a right to be with. 

So you're telling me there's a chance?

Good quote, but it wasn't that long of a shot for Hayford.  The Lloyd Christmas quote will more appropriately be used by Zach Anderson after the Larry Doty pep talk before the Whitworth game. 

[Logsfan1]

In support of Keandre's points re: Puget Sound's strengths....this year the Loggers beat UW River Falls, which if I'm not mistaken is now the #1 ranked team in the west.  UWRF made a late run in that game, but Puget Sound controlled the game and was the better team.  (This suggests that maybe the NWC is better overall than you might think this year.)  UPS had four poor halves in a row--losing a lead to WW in the second half in Tacoma after leading at halftime and expanding that lead to 7 or 8 early in the second half, playing a terrible game at PLU and then an awful half at GF, followed by good play in the second half and then a string of wins.  I didn't follow the recent game in Spokane, and it looks like WW dominated.  But I saw Puget Sound play WW very tough for most of the game in Tacoma and I think that in the recent PLU game at UPS the Loggers showed they can be a very tough and very physical team, presenting a different profile than past good UPS squads.  Puget Sound is quite good this year, maybe not the best team in the NWC but if they beat GF tomorrow it'd be hard to argue the Loggers are not the second best team in the conference.  Then they can hope for another shot at WW in Spokane. 
   

[etule]

I'm not sure that I care for your implication that transfers aren't recruited, or that they aren't as much a particular coach's recruits as are his four-year players. The first implication is definitely wrong, in most cases. And the second implication makes it sound as though transfers are red-headed stepchildren, as opposed to the favorite sons who are with the coaches from day one of freshman year. Can't say that I agree with that, either. Each coach is different. Each player is different. I've seen lots of transfer players and coaches who have developed extremely tight bonds, and I've seen plenty of four-year players who have never much cared for their coaches

(Sager)

I think that some coaches recruit a lot more than others. I think some coaches don't recruit JC kids at all. Not because they are bad kids but because thats the route they want to go!So I know that implication is not wrong!
As some one that went to a JC for two years I have no problem with JCs they are a very important part of our educational system.
Team sports sometimes are very touchy! Chemistry and molding kids as a team is hard enough when you insert new players it creates a whole new dynamic! It can become very difficult for a coach!(when they are D3 player of the year it's a lot easier)

I personally don't have a problem with JC players if they are there for two years! The one and done player I do have a problem with that senario! I think that bonds between coaches and players like any relationship is hard to predict. As someone who has coached kids over the last twenty years my bond with kids that I coached over four years is a lot stronger that a one or two year relationship!Every senario is different.
I'm not familiar with anything but the west coast and I know that WW does recruit more JC D1 players that most the teams on the west coast. Not saying it bad but I think that is a fact! In looking st the rosters on the Wisconsin teams that came out here to play did not see any transfer kids !
It works for them and really that is the bottom line! I don't have to like it and we don't have to agree! I love D3 sports because it is true student athletes. They work hard and study hard for no other reason but loving whatever sport they are playing. When kids are brought in for one year that bugs me. Doesn't make it right or wrong but I think it tarnishes what D3 is all about! Just my feelings!

[Bearcat Press]

Good quote, but it wasn't that long of a shot for Hayford.  The Lloyd Christmas quote will more appropriately be used by Zach Anderson after the Larry Doty pep talk before the Whitworth game. 

+1 for that.  Well played!

Also, stick a fork in Lewis & Clark - those guys are done.  Not to take anything at all away from Willamette's most complete game of the season (especially Taylor Mounts, who finally went into beast mode with 20 points, 16 boards, 3 assists and 2 blocks), but the Pioneers looked completely checked out last night, especially Hollins.  Going 0-11 from the floor is more than just a bad night.  Hopefully the Bearcats can take momentum from this win, the Linfield win, and the close loss to Pacific into senior night on Saturday against Fox.

[(509)Rat]

but the Pioneers looked completely checked out last night, especially Hollins.  Going 0-11 from the floor is more than just a bad night.

This sounds a lot like what another poster was saying earlier this season. Go ahead playball, give the 2 Pio posters (who have disappeared, surprise, surprise) a big "I told you so". You were spot on.

tonight's games:

Whitworth over Linfield: I actually think this game won't close as the game in Spokane. Doesn't make sense at all but I'm sticking too that.

Whitman beats Pacific

GF over UPS: Have yet to see UPS string together more than 2 good games against quality opponents, why should I think they'll start now? I'm guessing Grant is still out for Fox?

[Keandre]

UPS over Fox
Whiworth over Linfield
Pacific over Whitman-Whitman has trouble at Pacific(go back to last year)

[playball]

Thanks Rat.  But being right on Hollins doesnt feel all that great.  If I said David Michaels was going to have a 40 point game this year at the beginning would have been more satisfying.  Even though I still can't get my head around that one.

Big call on the Pacific upset at home over Whitman.  I think Whitman dominates as Pacific's tallest kid from the game I saw was 6'5....not bad, but he was also listed at 190 lbs.  David Michaels will have another 20-10 night, possibly 30-10.  Whitman doesnt overlook Pacific and wins by 18.

Linfield played WW close AT WW last time and you have those "Valley Refs" out to screw over every WW kid in the gym.  So Linfield loses by 3.

No Grant, no win for fox.  UPS beats Fox by 8.

And Buc, that 8 hour bus trip up to Spokane was/is/always will be rough!  My freshmen year we got to fly, soooo much nicer.  Would this feed into my "budgets directly effect competitiveness of teams" argument?

[A Buc Forever]

And Buc, that 8 hour bus trip up to Spokane was/is/always will be rough!  My freshmen year we got to fly, soooo much nicer.  Would this feed into my "budgets directly effect competitiveness of teams" argument?

I completely agree that budgets affect performance, that's what my post was saying. Those bus trips are also hard on the school side of being a student athlete also. Leaving later and getting back earlier makes it easier to get your work done.  That said, no planes from Walla Walla to Spokane. 

I like playbill's predictions for the night.  My only comment is that if Whitman loses to Pacific, I will forever be mystified by that team and will never try to figure them out again.  I think UPS beats fox, but it will be closer than 8.  As for WW vs Linfield, it better be by more than 3.  Time for the Bucs to become an efficient machine that marches on into the playoffs with a take no prisoners attitude.  This attitude kind of wavered at the end of the year last year. I thought WW peaked about January or early February last year.  The time to start peaking is now.

[Keandre]

Ok (509)Rat, that is 3 wins in a row for UPS against quality teams. What are your thoughts? Oh, let me guess, not impressed

[(509)Rat]

Why wouldn't I be? This is the first time UPS has looked good against top NWC competition on consecutive weekends. I had no reason to believe in the Loggers until after last night's game was over. Unlike you, I am consistent, not to mention realistic. So yes, UPS is finally accomplishing what their talent level would lead you to believe is possible.

Wish I could have watched the Whitworth game last night. Just looking at the box score, that's what I would expect from a top 10 team. And that is probably one of the first times this season you could say that since early Dec. Like a buc forever said earlier, I like how this team seems to be playing it's best basketball this late in the season. It certainly helps that they are finally healthy.