MBB: Northwest Conference

[(509)Rat]

Heard good things about Valle coming in but he's probably been the most consistent player, offensively, for Whitworth. Really impressed by the freshman. Really liked watching him work in the post against UPS guards last night. You just don't see guys his size that can play a little with their back to the basket.

[A Buc Forever]

Great weekend for Whitworth.  Two solid wins.  Hope they don't drop further in the rankings.  Whitworth may not have a dominant scorer right now, but Valle seems to be developing into one. The key to their success is (and has always been) great defense and execution. That has not changed in the transition from Hayford to Logie.

[formercat]

It seems that promoting the assistant coach to head coach is not a very successful procedure. 

Your argument may come to fruition after a few years, but right now its flawed.  You mentioned Lunt had some success at first, but that was because they were Bridgelands recruits. Well Logie and Cleary both have or had players who were major factors in their success that were recruited by the previous coach. If in a couple of years those two coaches are still winning with their own recruits then your argument may be correct, but as of now it does not.

[PiratePower]

Certainly there was talent left over at Pacific and obviously Whitworth when Cleary and Logie took over but don't underestimate the work it takes to handle the change either, plus you still have to prove you can coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and in Logie's case, coach in pressure situations (ie, championship games, NCAA tourney). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the leading scorer at Whitworth last year (Lasisi) and this year (Valle) were both brought in by Logie...so credit for much of their success goes to him and the new staff not Hayford there.

I definitely think getting a D1 experienced coach (Logie, Cleary, Bridgeland) or experienced head coach (Hayford/Bridgeland) has been proven to be a more successful model then promoting a D3 assistant (Lunt/Ione), but is that really a surprise?

[TryMeTeam]

PPower:

No not a surprise.  The surprise is that schools, as Playball has said, are too cheap to get a quality coach, and would rather cross their fingers and hope a promoted will somehow develop into a quality coach.  After the success these schools have had in the past, it is a wonder UPS, Wil, and LC would just settle for less.  But they are saving money!

[playball]

PPower:

No not a surprise.  The surprise is that schools, as Playball has said, are too cheap to get a quality coach, and would rather cross their fingers and hope a promoted will somehow develop into a quality coach.  After the success these schools have had in the past, it is a wonder UPS, Wil, and LC would just settle for less.  But they are saving money!

You kind of twisted what I said a little.  I said the schools that are successful have spent A LOT on their sports programs in the past few years.  I never said anything about settling for less.  Also, while Lasisi and Valle were brought in by Logie, I still think it had more to do with the success Whitworth had with Hayford than it did with Logie at all. 

Ione and Dinari were the heir apparents for those schools also.  It wasn't a surprise that LC and Willamette went that direction.

[formercat]

you still have to prove you can coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and in Logie's case, coach in pressure situations (ie, championship games, NCAA tourney). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the leading scorer at Whitworth last year (Lasisi) and this year (Valle) were both brought in by Logie...so credit for much of their success goes to him and the new staff not Hayford there.

I want to preface my comments by saying I am not saying that Clearly and Logie will not continue to have success in the NWC, but once again people's arguments are not consistent. Am I wrong in thinking that Lunt pulled off the same thing in 2009, that Logie did last year? Now Lunt was not new to UPS as Logie and Cleary are to their schools, but did he still not have to "prove he could coach in a new league, win over the locker room, and coach in pressure situations"?  You could even say that he developed the talent that Bridgeland helped recruit and in 2009 he went 16-0 in conference! I'll take your word for it that Lasisi was Logie's recruit, but who recruited Gebbers, Friedt, Lufburrow, etc? Logie could vary well have sustained success and be a great coach in the NWC its in his blood, see grandfather, but to judge him as more successful than Lunt is quiet unfair. 

And to echo off of what Playball was saying the two schools people consider the top now, Whitworth and Whitman, probably do spend more money than the others. Hayford did a great job of securing sponsors from the Spokane community and if Bridgeland is still doing it, Whitman had been letting him spend money well over his budget.

[TryMeTeam]

Playball:

I don't see how I twisted it.  If you take an heir apparent coach instead of doing a search for the best candidate, most probably because of allegiance and cost, aren't you settling for less?  "Too cheap" vs "Spending lots of money" are the opposite sides of the coin and reflect the directions those schools are going/maintaining.

FC:

Yeah, Lunt did it in 2009, but what about 2007 and 2008 when he had the 3 all-stars and underachieved.  He was totally lost his first two years, and I am not sure UPS did not finally win in spite of Lunt, not because of Lunt.  Develop the talent?  He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.  (If that doesn't bring in the UPS faithfully, they are totally gone!).  Logie did!

All I am saying it that if I were on one of those teams, I don't want an allegiance promotion to take over for a legendary coach, I want the best candidate!  And I don't think UPS, Wil or LC got that.  I want the school to CTC to get one! 

[Keandre]

What success has Cleary had in the NWC? Lunt got to the championship game last year by beating 3 times the coach that is suppose to be above him, Bridgeland. He did it with his own players, his own recruits, nothing about last year had anything to do with Bridgeland. Lunt didn't even play the run and gun game with him, they sat in a zone and took Bridge out of anything he wanted to do.

[formercat]

Yeah, Lunt did it in 2009, but what about 2007 and 2008 when he had the 3 all-stars and underachieved.  He was totally lost his first two years, and I am not sure UPS did not finally win in spite of Lunt, not because of Lunt.  Develop the talent?  He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.  (If that doesn't bring in the UPS faithfully, they are totally gone!).  Logie did!

Lol, are you serious? 2nd place, one game behind Whitworth in 2008, during which they lost to Whitworth twice by a combined total of 5 points. And 3rd place in 2007 with 3 all-stars that were underclassmen, with a stacked Whitworth team that year of Ryan Simes, Bryan Williams, and James Jones winning the conference that year. Thats underachieving?! Damn you are one hard person to please.

He was given a winning hand with 3 of the best players in the league and didn't get it done.

Those 3 future all stars were freshman during Bridgeland's last year, and Lunt did win a conference title with them so I am pretty sure that is getting it done. In comparison, Lunt inherited Foster, Kraul, and Williams all sophmores in Lunt's first season. Logie inherited Friedt, Gebbers,and Lufburrow all seniors in his first season.  I think Logie will do very well in the NWC, but I dont think its fair to bag on Lunt so quickly, especially since your formula for determining who is a good coach and who is not is flawed. 
Foreman has been a head coach for less than two years now and because he has not won a conference championship yet that makes him garbage? Silly logic.

[TryMeTeam]

Keandre:

Welcome back!  Your points are well taken.  Whtiworth was stacked too, and they had some of the best battles the league has seen in years!  But I am hard to please.

FC: 

Bagging on Lunt is not done "so quickly".  I am just not impressed.  He has calmed down, but the ranting on the sideline during his first years was immature.  He held on to the full court pressure way too long.  And it goes on.  I just look at what he has done and feel a more experienced, seasoned coach would have done better over the time he has been there. 

And there is no way I came close to saying Foreman was garbage!  Don't go there.  He was tutored by one of the best coaches (along with Hayford) this league has seen in many years.  He certainly has been schooled in how to run a quality program.  It is too quickly to bag on him.

Look, I am generalizing on some of this stuff.  Nothing has been straight line up, down or the same, except Whitworth maintaining the top spot, and it is too early to bag on Logie, either.  But what I have seen and heard, and what I predict will happen, the trend will be that the promoted coaches will live in the middle of the league standings, and the schools that went out to recruit and spend of a quality coach will thrive and live at the top of the standings.  Look where Whitman was and where they are now.  Logie has maintained.  Pacific is on the rise.  Both LC and UPS have struggled a bit, UPS early and LC in league.  And I think these trends will continue!

Two last things:  Remember this post, I predict I will be referring to it later.  And we got a UPS post!!!!!

[formercat]

He has calmed down, but the ranting on the sideline during his first years was immature.

I liked this last post of yours must better because you mostly based who was successful and who wasn't on your opinion and observations, not on some arbitrary comparison formula that in the end didn't add up to what you wanted it to add up to. The only thing I have to disagree with you on is the quote above. Not the point that Lunt was very demonstrative on the sideline, but that this was exclusively immature for him. Have you seen Bridgeland, his mentor, on the sideline? When he coached at UPS Bridgeland was all over the place, in fact I recall standing on the court 15 feet away from him and hearing him yell at a referee "You mother f*$#ing c*^$ s#%^er!", I am sure you can fill in the letters. So Lunt was really just replicating what he was taught. This is all of course based on my assumption that you do not find Bridgeland's behavior immature since you did not mention him.  If that assumption is wrong then please disregard this comment.

[A Buc Forever]

WW keeps winning, but the games are tight. The Redlands win was by comfortable margin, but that was due to a 16-2 run at the end of the game. Whitman seems to really be rolling over some teams.  I guess it's hard to compare at this point since they have few common opponents, but looking forward to league and especially the two games between the Whits. 

Anyone know how Logie and Bridgeland get along?  I assume better than Hayford and Bridgeland.

[(509)Rat]

I didn't know anyone got along with Bridgeland...

[dahlby]

Rat:
I am having computer (or operator error) problems posting. I have typed my long analysis twice and can't get it to post.
So I will keep this brief and hopefully it will take.

W/W:
> coaches did not over- react when the two first halves were kind of sloppy on the part of both teams.
> did not seem real confident in first halves
> made subtle changes by coaches at halftime
> played a much more physical game in the second halves and closed the lanes to the basket, forcing a turnover, block shot
or poor shot selection from the outside.
> offensively passed sharper, screened more and had better shot selection
> played with more confidence

Winning programs schedule good teams and know how to win. You  have created a  tradition  or culture of winning, and it really shows at crunch time.

I don't think you have earned a #11 ranking yet,( a #11 team would have put Redlands and Chapman to bed earlier in the game) but as your team matures and learns how to come out stronger in the first
half, by season's end, your ranking will be earned.
I also comment the parience your coaches have with the younger guys on your team

Hopefully we can meet W/W in the regionals come next spring. I know our coaches will help our guys improve.