MBB: Northwest Conference

[SpooH SreggoL]

As Bhawks points out, its basically impossible for another team to slow down the pace of a UPS game.  Even if the UPS press is broken, teams are almost obligated to take advantage of numbers and put up a quick shot (although I think the Loggers love to have teams pull up for floaters or out-of-control lay-ups that aren't nearly as high percentage shots as they might seem).  Also, UPS' high pressure half court defense and habit of racing the ball up court regardless of a miss or make on the defensive end doesn't allow for any lull in the action. 

[andrewf]

On the contrary, I believe it is very possible to slow down UPS's gameplan, all it takes is a team that is dedicated to keeping it slow from start to finish.  An example of this was last season when George Fox beat UPS in Newberg: 66-64 I believe it was.

They did it by keeping it slow and not allowing UPS to ever truly get in a rhythym.  Obviously not the norm, but a possibility for a dedicated team to do.

[SpooH SreggoL]

Andrew, thats actually a good case-study.  Executing a slow down game against UPS requires an extremely well-coached team of veteran players (see last year's Fox squad).   However, I wonder whether a team like that exists in the NWC this year.  If the Loggers lose in conference this season, I think its more likely that it will be because someone beats them at their own game.  Whitworth's second half run in Tacoma was spurred by pressing the Loggers and forcing the action.  The question remains:  Is there a team in the NWC that is deep enough to do this against UPS for nearly 40 mins and still have the legs to knock down big shots at the end of the game?

[D O.C.]

My first time here and I will add nothing...well, maybe ancient history. But if the football board is dominated by LINFIELD people because they are on top the it is only right and fitting I, being a LINFIELD person, should come on here when the team I wish to back is luke/luster; a combo of lukewarm and lackluster. In fact, maybe my fictitious character will be Luke Luster.

It is sickening for me to look at the national rankings and there is no mention of LINFIELD.
I look at the names bantered around in the NW and I still laugh at George Fox and Whitman. Why? Because it was once a LINFIELD tradition to beat these teams 111-60.  Pacific? By 20. Willamette and Lewis and Clark? Depending on the gym, 5-10. Concordia, Warner Pacific, and Cascade? Intramurals would have run them out.
UPS? Well, that was considered a big school and not many LINFIELD teams would have beaten them but would have died trying.
NWC conference championships back to back to back for a decade.
NAIA tournaments all the time (without 1 win however).
Now I have to sit back and admire you successful programs.

How many of the winning programs average 80 to 90 points?
Are there die-hard defense teams that steal and run?

Just wondering. I've got nothing to cheer about.

[blackhawks4]

Allright, bearcats, give me your prediction...With UPS not playing its best ball as of late, and Willamette apparently playing well, this is their chance!  Otherwise if UPS goes to  8-0 this weekend this "race" is over before UPS even makes the spokane trip or goes to fox.

DenSLA I sympathize with you, and for a school with your facilities, history, reputation, etc., your program should always be atop the standings.

[bearcatsfan3]

DensLa, you must be referring to the glory days of the late 70s for Wildcat hoops, because since then, there's been all of 2 outright Linfield titles the last 25+ years...Monsters in football, this version of hoops is more "mildcat" than anything else (although, from last Tuesday's score, they still own George Fox)...

BHawks: I've got to go with the Bearcats (what kind of fan would I be if I didn't) and say for them to win, its got to be in the low 80s, so I'll say 84-80 Willamette...In the two games I've seen (LC and PLU), I was impressed with Willamette's total number of capable guards...you need depth to play in a game like the one UPS will force friday, and I think they have it.  I will say that it is probably important for them to contain either Curtiss or McVey, as both having monster nights would be tough to overcome. Now, before you go with your "YOU CAN'T STOP THEM, THEY'RE BLAH BLAH" I mean one has to be under 15 points or so. If they're both over 20, and if the game is in the 100s, that definately favors UPS...

I agree, though (as I've said before) if Willamette can't win in Salem, then the race is probably over...and we'll have to wait for the NWC tourney for another lively board discussion...

[blackhawks4]

I'm with you, the game will be low scoring.  I say UPS 83-72.

Two keys to the game:
1.  Willamette's ability to get layups and easy buckets after beating the presss. 
2.  UPS has to shoot a decent percentage from the floor.  If they shoot the ball well from 3, they're tough.

I have no worries about WU stopping McVey and Curtiss I just worry about them stopping themselves.  Curtiss will have a good game whether he's on fire or 1-20, he does so many things.  McVey needs to get enough touches.  And both of them need to stay out of foul trouble, which rarely happens.

[ds0097]

It does look like Willamette is going to be UPS' toughest test in the NWC this season, but I don't see them losing this game. Curtiss is always going to get his points and his boards, even if he goes 1-20, just as blackhawks4 said. And the only time McVey gets stopped is when he gets himself into foul trouble. But what really makes me think that this team can be something special is how the freshman continue to get better every game, namely Williams, Foster, Pinkney and Krauel. With the schedule that Bridgeland set up to start the season (2 DIs, 2 or 3 DIIs, an NAIA, and the preseason DIII #1) these guys have already been through more than most freshman can hope to face in a year. And the fact that Williams is even being legitimately argued as the best point in the NWC as a Freshman should tell us something about the job Bridgeland has done recruiting and coaching. And Pinkney and Foster give UPS options when McVey is on the bench.

As long as UPS plays its game, nobody in the NWC can beat them, and it seems that Willamette is the only team that might be able to play with them. We'll see this weekend...

[bearcatsfan3]

Good to hear from some new people....

Now, ds0097, while I'll grant you that the simple fact UPS has dominated the way it has the past two years cements Bridgelands ability to recruit, let's not get carried away with ourselves...if Bhawks and myself are suddenly "legitimate" sources for who's deciding the best point in the NWC, we've got problems...if I suddenly throughout a case for willamette freshman david fife as the "best wing in the league", and Bhawks came back with the expected, "you're crazy", would that be a "legitimate argument" for fife as well? Doubtful...and most freshman who play early tend to have a steep learning curve...this is not a phenonmenon limited to UPS, as Fife, Pacific's Bartlett, Linfield's Baber, and PLU's guards have all had big games this season according to their websites...

Finally, I'm sure Willamette would welcome a 1-20 game from Curtiss (and how exactly is he "getting his points" when he misses 19 of 20 shots?)  I believe Bhawks was arguing that even if Curtiss does shoot that poorly on the drawbridges (which I doubt he will), the OTHER THINGS he does (rebounds, steals, etc.) would allow UPS to remain competitive in the game...

[SpooH SreggoL]

Best PG in the league or not, Williams has done an admirable job filling the void left by Cross.  Without him, the Loggers would arguably be without a pure point guard (although I'm sure you could make an argument for Delong).  While McVey and Curtis make UPS go, they are at their best when Williams is on the floor.

Question for BHawks:

Although Cross is the biggest name missing from last year's squad, I thought early in the year that the Loggers might actually miss O'Donnel and Shelton more.  Whats your take on how Foster and Pinkney are filling their shoes? 

[blackhawks4]

if anybody can give midgame updates lets hear 'em.  im not quite as confident as the others...although im predicting a logger win, they're gonna have their hands full

[blackhawks4]

Congrats bearcatsfan3, big win for your guys.  This is the third straight season UPS has lost to the second place team at their place.  Very, very tough to run the league.  Remember too, Loggers still go to Fox and have the Spokane trip.

Granted I picked a Logger win, but other than that I was on the money.  UPS shoots 33% from the field in the first half.  They shoot 8% from three for the game.  Curtiss has 17, 7, and 3, but shoots 4-18 on the "drawbridges."  Now I'm sure WU's "d" was good, but it wasn't THAT good!  Tough place to play. 

Meanwhile, WU shoots 61% from the floor, gotta think they got layins and easy buckets all night. 

McVey also fouls out and Curtiss has 4, I'd imagine they sat out some due to foul trouble.

I've heard from some that the officiating was somewhat one-sided, which is to be expected (the same way it may very well be in tac except for the loggers), but would be interested to hear bearcats fan3's perspective.  I'm sure my sources are somewhat biased. 

How was the pace of the game??  Who looked good? Was UPS missing easy ones or was it Bearcat "d?"  Fill me in!

Watch out for Fox tonight WU, very possible they could lose what they gained tonight.  UPS is still up a game despite records being the same.  Willamette slipped once (loss to ww) while loggers havent (loss to wu, tied for 1st).  And if Loggers can't beat WU at home, hard to make argument for them as best in league if lose twice to same team. Both teams still control their own fate however.

[bearcatsfan3]

I'd say the game, as far as intensity level, atmosphere, etc. certainly lived up to what I was expecting as a fan...big, enthusiastic crowd, two very good teams going toe-to-toe...

The difference in the game was Willamette's ability to control the tempo, keeping UPS from getting out in the open floor for easy baskets and open 3's...the Bearcats were very good at taking the layups that were there, but also, especially in the middle part of the game were able to stay spread in the half court and make UPS guard for an extended period of time...Willamette lead the entire game, by as much as 18, and then withstood a couple of Logger rallies (UPS is too good not to come back)...

I thought, as we stated during the week, that WU has enough quality guards to handle that type of pressure (Olinger, Erickson, Miller, Stuvland and Fife) all played very well, and did have a hand in holding UPS down offensively (I will say the Drawbridges played a role, but that's what Homecourt is all about)...

As for officiating, I don't think it was lopsided in either way...as much as the technical on Bridgeland hurt UPS in the 2nd half, I'd say there were at least 3 calls against Willamette that caused huge uproars in the stands...the style of play was physical and fast, and referees are going to miss some things...part of the game...

As far as ramification, WU followed with a tough, grind out win over GFox, and UPS battled Linfield for a closer than expected win...WU is, based on head to head, in first, with UPS a #1B at this point...I think Bhawks is right in saying UPS is maybe sitting a little easier, knowing their one loss is on the road to the other contender, but I don't necessarily think WU's loss at whitworth was a surprise...it is always tough in spokane, and Whitworth is much better in the "dome"...that being said, I think both teams have tough tests before their rematch with one another...UPS at Fox and at Whitworth/Whitman (the bourne kid appears to be playing very well in the stats column) and WU still has LC on a short break Tuesday in Salem and then hosts Whitworth/Whitman...

Long way to go, but with WU's win, at least we know Bhawks won't be able to hibernate through January and February...

[bearcatsfan3]

Watched last night's WU/LC game...Stuvland for Willamette was 7-13 from 3, finished with 36 points, and carried the team to a 10 point win...The Bearcats are now 1/2 game ahead of UPS in the standings, and have won 6 in a row.

@PLU this Saturday, with a HUGE homestand against Whitworth/Whitman coming next Friday/Saturday...

In the meantime, now that we're half way through the conference season, I thought now would be a good time for some midseason awards:

1/2 way All-NWC:

Olinger-WU
Curtiss-UPS
McVey-UPS
Born-Whitman
Pecht-Whitworth
(if WU wins league, then I would bump Stuvland up, and drop one of the others to second team)

(2nd)
Stuvland-WU
Kelly-Whitman
Tillery-LC
Young-Whitworth
Schmick-GF
(notice the lack of big men on this 2nd team...guards have just played better, based on the stats)

COY
1. James-WU
2. Bridgeland-UPS (James gets the nod based on the win last Friday)
3. Molitor-Whitman (they're in the race for 3rd, and when was the last time you could say that?)

Let the debates begin!!

[blackhawks4]

I already posted my midseason awards, but since this board is pretty much just me talkin to you, lets see...

COTY:  As of now I agree with you, Coach James always seems to overachieve.  If WU wins league, gotta go with James.  However, if UPS wins league it has to go to Bridgeland.  You gotta figure the winning team at worst finishes 13-3.  If that's UPS, they're 43-5 in NWC action in 3 years (3 titles).  If that doen't merit COTY, what does? 
This is a two person race.  I agree Molitor is third but he shouldn't even be considered.  First, they're only .500 in league, despite the fact that they are VERY dangerous and much improved.  However, I have a serious problem with rewarding teams and individuals that underachieve in the past, have one good year, and then are given awards, especially when they don't win league.

POTY I annoyingly post McVey and Curtiss for MVP often, but here's why.  If UPS gets 1st, I think its goes to Curtiss.  Curtiss brings all the intangibles.  Not only does he produce on a nightly basis, but his leadership and ability to come through in the clutch separates him.  And nobody plays harder than him (true...he's no saint).  He's the guy for UPS.

I know I'm biased here but if WU wins title, I say McVey!!  I don't think anyone has it tougher than him.  UPS plays 4 out 1 in so he constantly has the baseline official waiting and hoping to make a call.  He gets flopped on all the time and deals with horrible calls.  His numbers aren't huge, but they're good enough, especially considering he's out half the game.   He's double teamed nearly every night, and is still the biggest low post presence in the league.  I understand Olinger as strong candidate (especially if WU wins), but no team prepares for Olinger like they do McVey.  But if WU wins I won't be going crazy because I do think the MVP should go to a player on the 1st place team, unless someone else is far and away more dominating.

1st team From what I saw, Kelly (wmn) is much better than Born.  Although it is hard to argue with 20 and 13 (wow)!!!!!

mcvey , curtiss, olinger - locks

stuvland (with wu success), born, kelly, schmick, pecht - go for last spots...i say born (#'s and being post helps), stuvland and pecht (ww 3rd or 4th)

A lot depends on final records too. It seems teams with better records get their guys on despite talent and numbers.

2nd team  whoever above that doesnt make 1st, szalay, young, somebody from lc i say wells-dangerous, and what about williams from UPS.  Comeon give the frosh some love.  I hear credible sources on this board have brought his name up as best pg in league.

Hey Willamette give us one!  You know who's gonna get ya... is Whitman at your place!  They're gonna be overlooked and they're big and have kelly at the wing.  I don't know if you want a half court gamne with them. You'll get ww at your place after what happened to you there.