MBB: Northwest Conference

[blackhawks4]

Did you say "YAY?"  Correct me if I'm wrong but the NWC champ is the team that finishes in first at the end of the conference season, not neccesarily the team that wins the NWC tourney.

With the Loggers getting absolutely crushed in spokane and the powerhouse SCIAC (Occidental's gotta be the best team in the nation by now-right?) there is no way 2 NWC teams go to the tourney.  The winner of the NWC tourney will be the only rep. of the conference.

Loggers got absolutely nothing offensivlely from anybody in Spokane.  I thought that would be the key. 

I can't remember that last time I've seen a home court influence the outcomes of games as much as this year.  I think whoever has home court advantage in playoffs has HUGE edge. 

Whitworth is obviously hot, but honestly who do people think would fair best in the NCAA tourney?  I say (of course) UPS because of their style...I think wu or ww runs into trouble early with nwc being down. 

Curtiss had a monster game @ whitman--30 and 9.

UPS wins out wins league
WU wins out wins league

Somebody help me out with the scenarios:
WW wins out

UPS beats WU, loses to LIN (not gonna happen UPS senior night)
WU loses to UPS, wins @ Fox)

or

WU beats UPS
ups beats lin, wu loses @ fox (on senior night)

It hurts my head to think about it

[blackhawks4]

What the hells karma and why am i -4??  does that mean people dont like me?? i find that hard to believe.  is it because i disagreed with pat?  i hope he swoops in from nowhere to save the day again. 

[Himjay23]

Excuses keep coming about the way Puget is playing.  Oh and bbaddict, "pulling a Himjay", you mean being right.  I stated before how Whitworth was just, if not more talented than UPS. UPS is a well-coached team with some scrappy players that play hard every night but they are really not that talented.  McVey is a talented big man and williams is skilled, especially for a freshman. Curtiss is a streaky shooter who is also fairly talented. The rest are all solid role players that play each game like it is their last. Whitworth showed that they are every bit as good as UPS and dominated from start to finish. I think it just took them awhile to hit their stride. UPS is a good team though and I think all 3 (UPS, WU, WW) could beat each other on any given night.  As for the rest of the league:

George Fox-A little bit disappointing this year but trying to finish up on a good note.

Whitman- Improved team but they don't play much in the way of defense.

LC- Ineligible players and injuries hurt, but I think it might be time for their coach to hang it up.

PLU/Linfield/Pacific- Rebuilding

[blackhawks4]

bballaddict, i dont know why i'm even addressing you seeing as that in two weeks you will disappear along with whitworth from the nwc tourney.

But, pulling a himjay is when on friday night you say "Most teams (PLU the exception) are all matched somewhat evenly as far as talent goes, giving anyone a chance for an upset on any given night."  And then on Saturday, PLU beats you and you disappear from the board for 2 weeks.

Himjay, what excuses have been made for UPS?  The one thing I mentioned that could be considered an excuse is that McVey gets rough foul calls down low, but that wasn't even meant that way.  I've mentioned all year that I hope they can "pull it together."  If you want to see excuses read your boy NWC Bball Fan's post.

Himjay, it was one game!!!! Upsets happen (do I need to remind you about the Lutes). But,  UPS not talented? Curtiss..."fairly talented" and only a "streaky shooter." Not going to waste my breath. Do I even have to address this?  And gee, 3 star players and solid role players, yeah that sounds bad.  Who would want that?

   

[blackhawks4]

if my karma gets any lower am i gonna get reported to the moderator?  then what, are we talkin fines, suspensions?

[bbaddict]

Blackhawks:  What makes you so certain that I'm a Whitworth fan?  Maybe I'm rooting for the Bearcats?  One thing is certain -- I'm not for UPS.  However, if they do represent the NWC in the regionals -- I'd have to say "Go Loggers!"  And I'm not going to disappear -- you should be so lucky.  Oh yeah, you're the one with negative karma.

Actually, the phrase "pulling a himjay" was your phrase not mine & I took it to mean being dreadfully wrong about the outcome of a game.  Sorry Himjay.  That's what it sounded like.

Yes -- the home court does seem to be an advantage -- although Whitworth won at Willamette and they came close enough to make UPS pretty nervous in Tacoma.  With the stomping that Willamette gave UPS in Salem & how they've been playing, I think Willlamette will come out on top.

How does that work if Whitworth & UPS are both tied for second?  Who would get home court advantage?  I know they're split, but Whitworth beat Willamette twice, so would that put them up on on UPS?  Just wondering.

As far as games being determined by refs -- I was once told by an excellent bb player that part of the game is getting past the reffing & if you can't do that, you're not a very good team!!

Also, I think UPS has a lot of talent on their team -- their weakness is that they don't play "team basketball."  I think that's an area where Willamette & Whitworth (on a good night) do a better job.

So..... go ahead & guess where my loyalties are -- others have tried!!

[bbaddict]

Oh by the way Blackhawks -- the season hasn't ended yet & UPS doesn't have the final best record.  They could be tied with Whitworth by the end of the week.  Chew on that!

[SpooH SreggoL]

bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn't you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people's predictions after the fact.  Why don't you step up to the plate and make one of your own?

[NWC bball fan]

How come it is alright for Blackhawks4 to say whatever he wants about other teams, repeat over and over how good UPS is, and bash on other people's posts, but when someone else says something he acts like is the best thing since the invention of the internet.  I just want to remind him that Whitworth had UPS beat in the closing minutes and gave it away along with the refs.  Yes UPS earned the win.  Good job UPS, they are a good team.  But at Whitworth, they got completely dominated in all facets of the game as soon as the opening jump ball took place.  I can't stress enough how bad they got dominated.  They were down 30 when coach Hayford cleared the bench with about 4:00 remaining.  Say what you want about home court, they got worked over bad!!!  I am interested to hear your background..... are you like some basketball legend or something?  By the way you write on here, I would guess you are in the hall of fame or must live on the campus of UPS or something?  I know not everyone on this board agrees on everything, and that makes it fun, but one thing I am sure everyone can agree on is that you are not quite as cool to everyone else as you are to yourself!!!

[blackhawks4]

NWC Bball fan:  I tried to read your post but I couldn't understand your sentences.  I'm not even going to reply because I wouldn't feel comfortable arguing with a little kid.   

BBaddict, I'm losing sleep here--lying in bed, tossing and turning...Who do you root for?

On a serious note, I'm interested in hearing you elaborate on UPS not playing "team ball."

I would also like clarification on the tie breakers.

I got UPS by 20 over Willamette...watch for the Loggers to come firing out of the gate and put them away early. Willamette's walking into a war zone in tacoma (should be a loud student body too)

They may have a slow start on senior night but they'll take care of Linfield. 

Have a fun trip out to Spokane Willamette, it seems like WW has your number.

[NWC bball fan]

That is exactly the kind of responce I expected from the "oh so mighty" Blackhawk!  Whitworth owns the tie breakers over Willamette and UPS because UPS and Willamette split, Whitworth beat (killed) Willamette twice, and Whitworth has a larger (by 23) margin of victory over UPS.  Go to sleep Blackhawk, someone like yourself who has such a superior mind, needs some rest!

[bbaddict]

bbaddict:  Nobody is amused with your "guess where my loyalties are" act.  Stop trying to play the middle ground so that you can jump on either the Willamette or Whitworth bandwagon if one of them happens to win. 

" . . .others have tried"  When was this?  Didn't you just post your first message yesterday?

By the way, its pretty easy to sit back and second guess people's predictions after the fact.  Why don't you step up to the plate and make one of your own?

Gee SpooH -- you're as smart as your name -- why don't YOU tell me where my loyalties are?  Sometimes lives are complex & there's the team you want & the team you should root for!!   We can't all be simple.   And when did I second guess any predictions ?-- just pointed out that ONE of Blackhawks was dead wrong!!  No second guessing, just stating the facts!  I've not noticed that you have any constructive or informative opinions -- just kind of cranky anti-Whitworth posts.   From your clever name, we know you're a UPS fan.

As far as "others have tried" I'd like to point out that there is life outside of this forum -- you know, real people to interact with in real places -- you might try it.  So, yes I'm new to the forum, but hardly new to the NWC basketball world.  And, please don't suffer from that elitist view of we've been here longer so we know more!!  That is so anti-forum.

For Friday's game UPS/Willamette -- I'll say Willamette.  I expect it to be a fast paced, knuckle biting game with obnoxious fans & questionable calls, but the Bearcats will prevail   Have you seen them play recently?

Blackhawks4:  Get some sleep -- take a pill.  I cheer for whoever I want to, whenever I want to.  I'm impressed with some UPS players but their style of play seems ram & jam to the basket.  Rarely do you see any passing or assists -- it's kind of hotdog style.   I can't believe they don't get called more for offensive fouls -- they just run people down and most of the time get away with it.  Their team seemed more "team oriented" a couple of years ago, but not recently.

I think NWC bball fan is right about the tie breakers.  What about it Flegel or someone else that knows the ropes?

Here's what I expect:

Whitworth/Whitman -- Whitworth will win
Willamette/UPS -- Willamette will win
UPS/Linfield -- UPS will kill them
Willamette/George Fox -- will be close, but Willamette will win
Whitworth/Pacific -- Whitworth will win if they can see in the dark

I'm thinking it will be UPS that travels to Spokane and we all know how much fun that trip is!!

[Himjay23]

blackhawk, I think everyone on this board would agree that Curtiss is a streaky shooter.  Im not trying to put the guy down, its just the truth. The definition of "streaky" is someone who will shoot really well for a streak of time, then he will go cold and shoot really awful for a time. A guy who personified streaky shooting was John Starks.  Some games that Curtiss has had this year: 4-20 and 0-10 from 3 in a win over riverside; 4-18 in a loss to WU; and 7-23 in a win over PLU. He has also had some very good games like 10-17 for 27 in a win at LC and 8-13 at PU.  He is a very solid player who is as tough as they come and any coach would love to have a player like him on his team. His natural talent though, doesn't measure up to a guy like Jeremy Cross or Williams, but he gets the most out of what he has.  ALSO, did I ever say that UPS was BAD? All I said is that there wasn't much difference between them and WW/WU.  All 3 are well-coached and very good.

[SpooH SreggoL]

bbaddict:  Ture, I have been somewhat of a "Lurker" on this board so perhaps it is time that I added my own (predictibly biased) analysis/predictions.  I will be the first to admit that UPS has been somewhat over-rated all year.  While it is obvious that Willamette and Whiworth have closed the gap, even UPS' wins have lacked the feeling of total domination that was present the past two seasons.  Williams has neutralized the loss of Cross for the most part, but the Loggers sorely miss Shelton and O'Donnel. 

That being said, I think that UPS has to remain the favorite until they lose a home game (in the midst of a three-year NWC undefeated streak).  They do control their own fate, and I have to believe Curis and McVey will be hard to deny on their home court. 

[ds0097]

Wow, I'm gone for a couple days, come back and the board has gone from blackhawks and bearcats throwing picks back and forth, to a bunch of people with hurt feeling feelings crying and yelling at each other...

bbaddict, we're all really happy that you have a life outside of this board, but we really don't care if nobody else in this world can guess where your loyalties lie. My question is this, who do you root for if whitworth and willamette play? or do you just sit back and wait for one to win, then say that's your team?

I do aggree that UPS by 20 over Willamette is a little much, but I still have them winning relatively easily—by 10-15. Bridgeland will have them as ready for this game as possible and the combination of the loss to Willamette and the embarassment at Whitworth should have the Loggers playing with a huge chip on their shoulder. They'll come out hard and keep it up the entire 40 minutes, I think they'll even make Nolan Richardson be proud, but the 'Cats have too much riding on the game too to lay down so they'll make a couple of runs but will come up short. In the end Curtiss and McVey have to get back to the tournament, they can't let the two routs by UWSP be their tourney legacy. To do that Curtiss needs to not turn ice cold again and McVey needs to step up and actually dominate a game instead of just putting up nice numbers.

As far as the NWC and NCAA tourney go, UPS will get the #1 seed, and will hold on in a tough game against whichever team hosts the first game (back to the homecourt advantage in the WU/WW series). In the tourney UPS is either going to lose their first game, or make it to the elite eight. There's no middle ground for this team. If they lose in the first it will be because Curtiss is ice cold, McVey gets in early foul trouble and the freshman play like freshman. As good ass Williams is and as much promise as pinkney and foster have, they are still freshman and have played like it in the losses this season. If UPS makes it to the Elite Eight it will be because Curtiss is shooting well, McVey puts up 16 & 10 and stays out of foul trouble, Williams doesn't have another 6 or 7 turnover game and pinkney and foster provide the combination of length and athleticism in the press that UPS didn't have the last two years against UWSP. This is definitely within the Logger's reach, but I don't see how they can make it to the final four. It's too much to ask of a team with three freshman averaging over 15 minutes a game, including the pg, and another getting over 10 a game.

If UPS loses in the conference tourney I don't see either WU or WW winning a game in the tourney. I say this not because I don't think either has the talent to win one, but because I can guarantee you that the NCAA selection committee won't do either team any favors with their draw. They definitely won't get a home game (if the committee is reluctant to fly teams into Tacoma or even LA, there's no way they'll do it for Salem or Spokane.) So they'll have to travel, probably to Wisconsin, and they'll have a macthup against a top 15 team at least, and probably a top 10 team, in there first game. The environment will be hostile and the refs will treat them like a bad high school JV team. (If you doubt the committee would do this, remember that #8 UPS had to play #9 Buena Vista last year in the second round. How the committee could feel that was fair to either team is beyond me, so it obviously had to do with geography and money.) I'm sure both teams would play well, but all of those factors combined with the difficulty of playing in your first tourney will be too much for them.