MBB: Northwest Conference

[bucs77]

I feel like I got stuck talking to that slow kid in high school who doesn't understand that you asked him how he was doing not what he ate for lunch

[Pat Coleman]

Man, 45 minutes and you still have no facts? Guess it's over, then.

BTW, insulting another poster is no way to make your point.

[pineconefan]

Soooo...

Logs/Bearcats - Are either of you anticpating a repeat of the three-overtime thriller this weekend in Salem?  Can Willamette match its performance from December?

[UPSoundLogs]

Pcones-

Geez, I hope there isn't another triple overtime game, that was painful to watch. 

WU is a very tough place to play, even though they are having a real down year that trip still worries me .  In my opinion UPS is their own worst enemy, they have TONS of talent but are very young and don't play hard at times.  If they come out with a spirited effort they are more than capable of playing with the best teams in the country...if they come out half heartedly they are more than capable of losing to the worst teams in the country.  It's as simple as that.

After a down weekend this past weekend(barely getting wins over LC and Linfield AT UPS) I'm guessing they will have a tough week of practice and be ready to go at WU.  With the cats being in a downward spiral this season I'm guessing a double digit win for the Loggers.

Prediction- UPS 91     WU 80

Bcats....what do you think?

[Gregory Sager]

I found the operating expenses info on Basketball to be interesting.

Here is the breakdown on the NWC and SCIAC in terms of OE:

NWC:
$75,513 -UPS
$58,667-Whitworth
$47,981-Whitman
$47,591-GFU
$46,153-Willamette
$41,498-Linfield
$34,384-Pacific
$30,853-L&C

SCIAC:
$44,028-Oxy
$36,175-Claremont
$23,975-Redlands
$22,000-Chapman
$16,262-Cal Lu
$14,507-LaVerne
$14,431-Pamona
$10,400-Whittier

Chapman isn't in the SCIAC, wildcat11. It's an independent school. And you forgot Caltech.

[NWCer]

First time poster, long time fan.

First half is over, mid-season awards?  Player of the year, coach of the year, surprises, dissapointments?  Predictions?

Symes has put up great numbers for Whitworth, Lunt and Hayford both have their teams with only one loss at the break.

Pacific has had some big wins in Lowery's second year (being that my cousin was a Boxer my NWC loyalties goes towards them).  Give my Boxers another year or two.

Willamette has had a rough start, but Stuvland is back, maybe they can make a late charge toward the playoff.

Safe to say two of the spots will be taken by Whitworth and UPS, with LC, Pacific, Fox, and maybe even Willamette in the hunt for the third.

Whitworth fans, what do you think of your boys' trip coming up this weekend, at Pacific and at LC?  Not an easy one, I think both are undefeated at home in conference, and Whitworth is undefeated on the road in conference, something has to give.

[Gilbert McFinnegan]

Pinecone & Buc"k"s

Looks like I was absent on the wrong day...I am sorry that I was not here to help out when Pat came guns a blazin'.  I will try not to let it happen again.  I did however try and give a little help over on the SCIAC board in an attempt to shed some light on reality....not sure if it worked.

Anyhow...

So Gilbert - what do you think Whitworth's chances are of winning at both Pacific and L&C this weekend?  Seems like this is the key weekend of the second half for the Pirates (leaving out for one second the Pirate-Loggers rematch).

Your Boxers have shown the typical up-and-down syndrome of youth.  What's your take on how they'll respond to a pair of tough losses this past weekend?  They have certainly played well at home.

I think you said a lot in the statement "typical up and down syndrome of youth." With Pac you get games like a 5 point road loss to WW, win against UPS, followed by a win against LC....and then you get losses on the road to PLU and Linfield.  I think not only youth of the players, but also youth of the program have to be taken into account.  This is Lowery's second trip through the NWC with his first recruiting class.  The program may still be finding an identity and determining its way to try and win in the NWC. It reminds me a lot of the '02-03 UPS team that went 12-13 before UPS has gone on to there three year dominance (I am not sure if Pac is as talented, though).  The team can win at home, and can get up for the big games (i.e. UPS, WW).  That is easy.  However, the team has failed to show the qualities that tend to separate the NWC champs from the rest of the pack:  The ability to find ways to win on the road.  But Pac is at home, they have lost the last two, it is WW, and this is a HUGE game so......

As for WW, they have a huge weekend.  I think this weekend may determine whether or not they are really the favorite in the NWC.  They can pick up a win where UPS failed to, and show that they can show that ability to win on the road like I talked about.

I think they will definitely get one, but two?  I say the chances are 50/50.

I think Gil is right, if we do end up with two NWC teams and one SCIAC team in the tourney the two NWC teams will probably be made to play each other in the first round...then the winner plays, and probably punishes, the SCIAC team(again).    I can't claim I know all the details but that seems like the most likely outcome.   Pat can you fill in some of the blanks for us JV boys...pretty please ? 

Logs-

Look like Pat big timed you and did not even answer your "second string" question.  Nice attempt at the olive branch though.

[pineconefan]

Gil, I am anxious about this weekend for the Bucs.  To have a real chance at finishing at the top of the league, they do need both.  Missing James Jones could be big this weekend.  Not just for his points, but I am sure the team will miss having that extra senior ball handler on the floor in a couple hostile gyms.

The one thing that could bode well is that Whitworth has won in both gyms the last two-three years, so there isn't much of an intimidation factor coming in.

I fully expect the "good" Boxers to show up for the game on Friday.  I'll be listening to Bob C. call the game.

[NWCer]

Gil

Great analogy of the Boxers, it may be a total youth of the program thing going on right now.  But I like the comparison to that 02-03 UPS team as well, I remember seeing them when Bridgeland first took over.  Lowery reminds me a bit of Bridgeland, young, driven, a good recruiter, intense, his guys play hard for him (at least at home right now from what I'm hearing, I haven't seen them on the road yet).

Pinecone, I agree, I think it's 50/50 Whitworth gets both.  I have to try and make it out to the Grove Friday, should be a good one.

Did Van Domelen play in the first Pac-WW game?

[UPSoundLogs]

NWCer-
As for your question about mid-season awards...

I've been suprised/impressed by several of the young Loggers this year, but I don't want to be too biased so I'll stick to the rest of the league. 

From the players I've seen play so far I think Tillery from LC and Nugent from WU have been the best.  Tillery is awesome in the open court and super quick at getting to the rim, Nugent is just an all around very solid player especially for a Freshman.  My guess is he will be in the running for POY in years to come. 

From reading game summaries and looking at statistics I would say Symes(sp?) from WW and Born from WTM are both looking like first team all NWC type of players.  Symes has really stepped it up in scoring with JJones out for WW and Born averages 20/11, you can't really argue with those numbers. 

Gil- 
Ya I really did get big timed by the P-man, I think all he did was lower my karma even more, Oh well .  Nice commentary on the Boxers season so far this year, you really seem to know your stuff.   With the way you analyze, You remind me of a coach I once knew!!!

[Gilbert McFinnegan]

Logs-

I appreciate the love on the Boxers comments...I am not too sure of what to make out of the analogy to the "coach you once knew," followed by the "winky guy."  It seems like we have the same view on most major issues and tend to get along well on the board, therefore I think you mean this as a compliment.  In attempts at deciphering the meaning of the "winky guy" in the quote, I could only come up with one explanation.  To put it in your terms, as you framed it to Sager in his descriptions of Williams, you possibly have a "man crush" on one of the UPS coaches you once knew....Bridegland perhaps?  He has brought you success recently so I figured by comparing me to him, and the "man crush" you have on him, would be a compliment to me.  So thanks....sort of.

Anyways back to business.

NWCer welcome.

As for midseason awards, only two.

Biggest Surprise: Robert Krauel, UPS
He is an under sized post that is 4th in the league in scoring at 17 a game, second on UPS in scoring, leads the league in field goal percentage, and a monster on the boards.  All this after coming off a 4 point, 11 minutes per game Freshmen campaign.  I think a lot of credit needs to go to Krauel, and some to Lunt as it looks like UPS has found a NWC first teamer where no one expected.

Least Surprise: Kyle Born, Whitman
22 and 11.  Enough said. He has been putting up these type of numbers consistenly for a while now, it is just too bad that he and Faidely could not get it going in the W column.  Despite this I do not think you can ignore the argument for possible POTY.

[UPSoundLogs]

Gil-

I think you may be reading into the winking guy a little too much.  I was simply trying to say that your analysis of Pacific reminds me of a coach's.  You are very detailed and seem to know a lot about Pacific.  You portray some of the same qualities that I've seen coaches that's all (don't mind that little guy).  Although I am a UPS hoops fan, I can't claim to have ever known Brigelend(sp?) personally, but you are right, he did bring the team great success!  You seem to hold him in high regard however, so If you would like to believe I have a "man crush" on him and you think he's a great guy, then I guess I'm ok with that.  Kinda creepy, but hey, whatever floats your boat

Also, I think you are correct in naming Robert Kraul as one of the best in the league.  I didn't want to portray a UPS bias in my mid season picks, but he and Jason Foster both deserve a lot of credit for how well they are playing this season and keeping the Loggers in the Conference title race. 

[Gilbert McFinnegan]

Logs-

Alright Logs, thanks for the explanation.  It makes me a little more comfortable being on this board.  You don't take the  I put up a few posts ago seriously, and I will not read into the . Deal.  For the record, I was never too much of a Bridgeland fan per se.  I liked how hard his teams played, but thought he was a little much on the sideline.  I heard he even got thrown out of an aumni game.  True?

Anyway, it seems like we both agree Born is having a POTY like run...and this is for the rest of the board as well...who else would you throw in the mix mid way through.  What about Foster, Logs?

[UPSoundLogs]

Gil- 

Like I said before, I don't want to be putting too much of my bias towards the Logger players into the mix when discussing POTY/ All conference/ etc. but since you asked I will discuss them a little. 

In my mind Foster, Krauel, Delong, and potentially Williams and Marsh could each make an argument for being on the All NWC list at the end of the year.  I realize it isn't likely or fair to have 5 UPS players as all conference, but I think they are all on that level as players.  If UPS wins the conference, either Foster(18 and 7) or Krauel(17 and 6) should be POY, with the edge to Krauel becuase he is more consistent in crunch time.  They both put up great numbers, especially when taking into account the fact that they each only play between 20-25 minutes a game and often times play side by side(which eats away at each others stats).  The great thing is they both are only Sophmores, two more years of those guys in the league should be scary for everyone else in the NWC.   I would even venture to say they might overshadow Chase Curtiss as UPS's best player from the past few years by the time they are seniors. 

So without getting too carried away, that's my analysis on the Logger players. 

I wish I could say I have seen more teams in person so that i could comment on other players, but I have only seen about half the league so far this year.  Does anyone else have some mid season player analysis/awards?  It's always interesting to hear everyones perspective. 

[Tuxguy]

Interesting night in the NWC,

Linfield beats PLU
Whitworth continues to roll
and............
the game of the week, The bearcats beat the Loggers 119-108. 
What a shoot out, anyone at the game?