MBB: Northwest Conference

[LogShow]

Wheaton has Raymond, but they are not a one-man team.  Andy Wiele was the main force against Lawrence (28 pts, 11 rbs) with Ben Panner also contributing 22 pts.  They hung in despite Raymond having a horrible night the first 35 minutes (though he OWNED the last 5 of regulation and the OT - going from 6 to 23 points over that span).  Their only other threat is a freshman, Jahns, who is capable of 2 or 18, depending on the night.

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.

Thanks for the insight.  Looking forward to Holland..isn't that veird!

Yeesh Dr. Evil!  Yeesh, Yeesh!

[Gregory Sager]

Jurich did do a great job defending Foster in Tacoma, and made him work for the points he got.  I don't know but I would guess that Raymond is probably more a a true post/down low player then Foster is.

Raymond does not post up all that often. He is the player who, about 75-80% of the time, has the ball in his hands on the perimeter. He's a score-or-dish penetrator in the Iverson mold whose great strength and body control allows him to finish after midair contact. He's also a superb passer (3.8 apg) and a streaky perimeter shooter (don't be swayed by his relatively low 32% shooting from downtown; Wheaton's offensive firepower is limited, which means that he's had to take a lot of shot-clock bailouts this season).

My guess is that Jim Hayford will take a page out of Hope's book and attempt to force the ball out of Raymond's hands by using halfcourt traps and various other double-teaming devices. Hope forced Raymond to turn the ball over 12 times in Michigan back in November, although Wheaton lost Andy Wiele to an injury in the third minute of that game. As Mr. Ypsi said, when Wheaton doesn't have Wiele in the game it's an impotent team.

[sac]

It also helps if the refs don't buy Raymond's falling down routine everytime he drives the lane.   Otherwise its a parade of FT's, that also didn't happen vs Hope.  He's a tremendous player and should be the #1 focus of any defense.

I thought Hope bottled him up better than most teams had, and he still got 23 points.  They were very physical with the entire Wheaton team not just Raymond.

[Gregory Sager]

WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.

[sac]

WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.

The games will be sellouts, there's no question of that, its just a matter of how many tickets Wheaton/Whitworth/Ohio Wesleyan return from the 550 or so they'll be offered.

The general admission seats for last Saturday's game were pretty much gone by 6pm, 1 hour before tipoff.  There will probably be a pretty good crowd for the Wheaton/Whitworth game.

I personally love the double headers of Sectionals, its great fun.  I'll be there for the first game for sure.

[nwhoops1903]

  I don't know but I would guess that Raymond is probably more a a true post/down low player then Foster is. 

Raymond is a guard who handles the ball alot.

[nwhoops1903]

Bottom line: one superstar, two excellent players, a streaky freshman, and not much else.  If Wiele gets in foul trouble (and he sometimes does), their inside game is kaput.

Is he talking about WW? 

Sounds like the teams are pretty similar in that sense...WW never really seemed to get in foul trouble though...

I think he could be talking about Oxy, without the frosh, as well.

If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.  I would love to see foul trouble on Wheaton.   WW plays smart defensive and avoids foul trouble.  WW loves to go to the line.  Both teams don't go deep down their benches.  Foul trouble might be the difference in deciding who wins this game.

[nwhoops1903]

It also helps if the refs don't buy Raymond's falling down routine everytime he drives the lane.   Otherwise its a parade of FT's, that also didn't happen vs Hope.  He's a tremendous player and should be the #1 focus of any defense.

I thought Hope bottled him up better than most teams had, and he still got 23 points.  They were very physical with the entire Wheaton team not just Raymond.

Whitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.  If he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.  Whitman had the most range as any shooter we had in the NWC and he was off the dribble nuts!

[Gregory Sager]

If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Oh, but it is, my man, it is. Kent Raymond can do what any other superstar guard can do on this level, Connor Whitman included. He's a shoo-in first-teamer on this year's d3hoops.com All-American team.

Whitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.

You don't "deny the ball" to the man who is bringing it up the floor. You find a way to force it out of his hands, most likely through trapping double-teams. Raymond is a point guard -- a score-first point guard, but a point guard nonetheless.

If he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.

Penetrating and creating is what Raymond does, and very few teams have stopped him from doing it -- and CCIW defenses take a backseat to nobody in D3. Raymond not only has a very quick first step, he has an uncanny knowledge of the game and the ability to read a defense's (and a specific opponent's) weaknesses very, very quickly. Don't casually declare that Whitworth will stop him from doing this or stop him from doing that before you've seen him play.

[HopeConvert]

WW is heading to Holland, MI.  Should be an interesting trip...Nice that they, have a neutral first game, and don't have to play the home team.  But Wheaton isn't too far away, I suppose they will travel well.

Wheaton never travels well. If more than 100 Wheaton fans make the trek around the lake to Holland next Friday, I'll be shocked. At any rate, it won't make any difference. DeVos Arena will have 3,000 screaming, orange-clad people on hand next Friday night -- but the orange won't be Wheaton orange. However many Wheaton, Ohio Wesleyan, and Whitworth supporters show up, they'll be a mere drop in the bucket in a sea of Hope fans. Hope annually outdraws every other school in D3 basketball, and the Hope faithful will eagerly snap up whatever tickets go unsold by the other three schools in the sectional.

Even with the Hope students on spring break. I know people are eagerly awaiting ticket information, and I'll be surprised if it's less than 3/4 full for the first game, and less than full for the second. I know I'm looking forward to the doubleheader (assuming I can get tickets ).

[nwhoops1903]

If Raymond can do for 35 minutes what Oxy's Whitman did for 25 minutes, we will be in some hurt but I really don't think that is possible.

Oh, but it is, my man, it is. Kent Raymond can do what any other superstar guard can do on this level, Connor Whitman included. He's a shoo-in first-teamer on this year's d3hoops.com All-American team.

Whitworth can be physical and will most likely deny the ball to Raymond in the half court.

You don't "deny the ball" to the man who is bringing it up the floor. You find a way to force it out of his hands, most likely through trapping double-teams. Raymond is a point guard -- a score-first point guard, but a point guard nonetheless.

If he gets it, he will most likely be facing a shot over a defender who is longer and taller than he is than a chance to penetrate and create.

Penetrating and creating is what Raymond does, and very few teams have stopped him from doing it -- and CCIW defenses take a backseat to nobody in D3. Raymond not only has a very quick first step, he has an uncanny knowledge of the game and the ability to read a defense's (and a specific opponent's) weaknesses very, very quickly. Don't casually declare that Whitworth will stop him from doing this or stop him from doing that before you've seen him play.

TOUCHY TOUCHY..I don't think I declared anything.  "Most likely" does not sound like a "we will shut him down."  Denying him in the "half court" was meant to say that if he does give up the ball, getting it back will be made difficult.  And no offense to CCIW teams or def. was implied or suggested.  Whitworth plays pretty good defense, when it wants or needs to.  Finally,  I said it wasn't possible because Whitman was out of his mind good for about 25 minutes and kept his team alive through sheer will and determination.  Not even directed at Raymond, who I KNOW is a point guard. 

Sager, I know you know your stuff.  Why so defensive?  Finally, who would you rather have Raymond or Andrew Olsen?

[Titan Q]

Illinois Wesleyan played both Occidental and Wheaton (3 times) this year.  I'm very comfortable in saying Kent Raymond is the better player of the two - he's more complete. 

Whitman, a 2-guard, is primarily a 3-point shooter...and a deadly one at that (he lit IWU up, that's for sure).  While point-guard Raymond is a great shooter, he's also a terrific penetrator, a deadly mid-range jump shooter, and can even post up.  Raymond (6-3/195) is also a lot bigger than Whitman (6-1/170).  Physically, Raymond is a load for opposing guards. 

This year, 62% of Whitman's FGA were 3's...only 38% of Raymond's have been from beyond the arc through 27 games.  Whitman shot 101 FT's in 28 games this year...Raymond has attempted 183 in 27.  Two different players.

Kent Raymond and Connor Whitman were the two best guards I saw this year.  I'd say Raymond is a lock 1st Team All-American and Whitman is a 2nd/3rd teamer 2-guard.  Raymond just has more dimensions to his game than Whitman does. 

[nwhoops1903]

Illinois Wesleyan played both Occidental and Wheaton (3 times) this year.  I'm very comfortable in saying Kent Raymond is the better player of the two - he's more complete. 

Whitman, a 2-guard, is primarily a 3-point shooter...and a deadly one at that (he lit IWU up, that's for sure).  While point-guard Raymond is a great shooter, he's also a terrific penetrator, a deadly mid-range jump shooter, and can even post up.  Raymond (6-3/195) is also a lot bigger than Whitman (6-1/170).  Physically, Raymond is a load for opposing guards. 

This year, 62% of Whitman's FGA were 3's...only 38% of Raymond's have been from beyond the arc through 27 games.  Whitman shot 101 FT's in 28 games this year...Raymond has attempted 183 in 27.  Two different players.

Kent Raymond and Connor Whitman were the two best guards I saw this year.  I'd say Raymond is a lock 1st Team All-American and Whitman is a 2nd/3rd teamer 2-guard.  Raymond just has more dimensions to his game than Whitman does. 

Size matters.  We all know Raymond is the real deal and the biggest test we are likely to face in a backcourt player this season.  Cheers!

[LogShow]

NWHoops, who do you think will be assigned the dubious job of stopping Raymond?  Williamson?  Naknamura?

Or maybe WW will have to play a lot more zone

[LogShow]

I never got to see Whitman play for Oxy this year sounds like he was a heck of a player. 

I do barely remember him playing for Oxy when they made the trip up to UPS in 2006.

Sounds like WW got his best and they still survived.  Lets hope they can do the same against Raymond and Wheaton.