MBB: Northwest Conference

[(509)Rat]

This feels a lot like the football board, only with the UPS fans taking on the roll of the Linfield guys over there.  Why would it be a "real disappointment" if the loggers didn't win the conference?  You have had equally talented teams the last couple years and haven't won the conference championship...what makes this year different.  With yet another strong Whitworth team this year, I sure hope we don't find you hanging in your closet after the Bucs go to another national tourney with easily their deepest, most well-rounded team since '95.

[LogShow]

I think SoundLogs is just saying that UPS has lots of talent and hasn't put it to use yet...the seniors came in with lots of hype and haven't lived up to it.

Rat thats a bold statement...there have been some pretty good Bucs teams since 95.  I am interested why you feel that way...

[pineconefan]

Time to start migrating over to the basketball board from the football board.  Looking forward to watching the Pirates play again this year.  I don't know anything specific about the newest Pirates, but I've heard they are very good.  But I think Nakamura will have a great year again, and get a little more respect for what he brings to the court.  He just doesn't make mistakes.  And I think David Riley will break out with a big shooting year.

I am not surprised UPS is favored in the coaches ranking.  They have the most back from last year.  But as some of the voices on this board have said, that group definitely has the most to prove.

Pacific will be tough.  The return of the big guy to go along with a proven scorer will make them my choice to make the playoffs as a third or fourth seed.

Not sure how I feel yet about the four-team playoff (have to see it play out once or twice).  I do wish they'd consider having all four teams play at the gym of the top seed to give it more of a conference tournament feel.

[logshock101]

This feels a lot like the football board, only with the UPS fans taking on the roll of the Linfield guys over there.  Why would it be a "real disappointment" if the loggers didn't win the conference?  You have had equally talented teams the last couple years and haven't won the conference championship...what makes this year different.  With yet another strong Whitworth team this year, I sure hope we don't find you hanging in your closet after the Bucs go to another national tourney with easily their deepest, most well-rounded team since '95.

Pretty bold statement about your Whitworth squad there Rat. Filling the shoes of POY Symes and also Willemson (sp?) could be quite a task. I don't know what kind of guys Hayford reloaded with this year (probably some more Delta JC guys), Nakamura is just a solid guard who doesn't really make mistakes, but he needs other guys around him to finish the plays once the ball gets out of his hands. Riley is a good shooter, but in my opinion that was all he could do last year, when he put the ball on the floor against pressure it was a turnover waiting to happen. It will be interteresting to see his growth this year

I think what UPSoundlogs is saying is that it would be a real disappointment if the loggers don't win a conference title this year because guys like Foster and Williams are in their senior year. Guys from that class came in with a lot of hype surrounding them, but so far have won their only conference title riding the coat tails of McVey, Curtis, Buehler, and the older Walker during their freshman year.  The past 2 seasons we had no seniors and 3 seniors, but they were not star players. Walker, Wood, and Marsh were all good players, but with the exception of Marsh their job was not to score, it was as role players getting the ball to our big name guys. This is Williams and Fosters 3rd year as the teams stars and they haven't been able to get the loggers to the promise land. Which leaves their legacy as great individual players on underachieving teams.

[(509)Rat]

I just don't see how any team in this league can guard this installment of Pirate Basketball.  Nakumura is a much better shooter and more of a threat to score than his predecessor Williams.  You didn't get to see it much because of Symes but you can bet he'll get plenty of looks this year.  Yet, he is still good at holding onto the ball and not turning it over.  They have two very impressive shooters and most of the people around the program will tell you Sellereit is actually better from the 3-point line than Riley (scary thought) but gives up a few inches to Riley and didn't get more than a couple minutes in bunches last season making it hard to ever get into a rhythm.  Good luck running a zone against the Pirates with those three in the back court.  The newest addition is a 6'8" freshman from Germany that will be the most dominant big man in the conference once he gets his feet wet in Whitworth's system.  Montgomery and Jurich are back and will most likely be the starters as the season opens.  Sounds to me like two juco guys Bo Gregg and Troy Kalbhenn will also be fighting for pt and from what I've heard both of them play just like Willemsen (Hayford is great at replacing parts in his system from year to year).  I think the loss of Symes will hurt initially because it will be the first year they don't have that go-to forward who can put it in from anywhere on the court and take just about anyone to the rack (see Symes and Pecht), but I think as they continue to play together and Hayford gets a feel for what he's working with this will be a very tough team to beat.

I'm just curious to see how this team slows down UPS.  IMO that has been the key reason Whitworth has had success against the Loggers in recent years.  They've been very effective with their press and turning it into a half court game where UPS seems to struggle.  I don't see why losing Symes or Willemsen would change their ability to keep up with UPS defensively and the scoring will still be there even without Symes, so I don't see why Whitworth shouldn't beat UPS again.  Of course this is one, biased opinion.

[LogShow]

Rat,

I have to agree with you, the WW absolutly dismantaled the UPS press last year (much more so then the year before).  But don't underestimate Williamsen's effectiveness against the press.  Nakumura was solid, and don't get me wrong I think he is a great player and very talented and heady.  But Williamsen, I feel, the one one who really made UPS pay for pressing.  Nakumura would get the ball across with no TOs and then do a great job of getting the ball to Symes.  Williamsen broke the press and then created easy/quick scoring opportunies.  If UPS still continues to press all game it will be interesting to see who can step up and create those easy buckets.

[UPSoundLogs]

"I think SoundLogs is just saying that UPS has lots of talent and hasn't put it to use yet...the seniors came in with lots of hype and haven't lived up to it."
-Logshow

"I think what UPSoundlogs is saying is that it would be a real disappointment if the loggers don't win a conference title this year because guys like Foster and Williams are in their senior year."
-Logshock

Thank you for helping to clarify my statements fellas, that is exactly what i meant.  There are some fantastic seniors on this UPS squad that just haven't lived up to what I thought they would do so far.  I would argue that they(Foster, Williams, Krauel) have more talent than McVey, Curtiss,Walker, etc. that won 3 straight NWC titles and got to the elite 8 in 2006.  I've been expecting big things from this current group for the last 2 years and they have been really good, just not dominant.  I'd love for them to take the next step and really dominate.  It sounds like they will have their work cut out for them, if what Rat says is true WW is gonna be VERY tough once again.  (I gotta admit, im very impressed with how WW reloads every single year )

Logshock,
Welcome to the clan, It's always nice to build upon the group of Logger fans on this board.  It sounds like you may be pretty close to the team, I'm sure you'll have some good info for us along the way!

[UPSoundLogs]

As a side note, my karma is back to 0!!!  I feel like a new man!!!  I have made quite the comeback since being down to an all time low of -33.  I guess staying out of arguments with the "Hall of Famers" has probably helped me out some 8).  Thanks to anyone who has helped my journey back to zero.

[LogShow]

As a side note, my karma is back to 0!!!  I feel like a new man!!!  I have made quite the comeback since being down to an all time low of -33.  I guess staying out of arguments with the "Hall of Famers" has probably helped me out some 8).  Thanks to anyone who has helped my journey back to zero.

Well things are looking up for you SoundLogs 

Here's one more for ya...get back in the green!!!!

[LogShow]

SoundLogs, also wanted to mention...you only have 46 more posts till you can start dishing out Karma yourself 

[NWCer]

UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

The last several posts have reconfirmed one thing - UPS and Whitworth are good and a lock to own 2 of the 4 playoffs spots......  Who gets the 3rd and 4th?  Pineconefan I'm with you that my Boxers will get one......

[logshock101]

UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

While it is true that a more seasoned coach may not have made some of the same mistakes that Lunt did in his first 2 years, almost all the players were happier to have Lunt in control than Bridgeland.  Lunt is much more personable and can actually be told your opinion where as you had to tell Bridgeland what he wanted to hear.

All that aside, the players are the ones who actually play/win games. In my opinion the major difference between the Foster/Williams/Krauel group and McVey/Curtiss/Walker group is mental toughness. When things got tough, the latter group dug down deep and found a way to win. My guess is that it developed during their 1st year or two when sh*t hit the fan when they were a .500 team as opposed to coming in winning a conference title and making the elite 8 during their freshmen year.

[NWCer]

UPSoundLogs,

I can agree with you from what I remember that Foster/Williams/Krauel is more talented than the McVey/Curtiss/Walker group, but that McVey/Curtiss/Walker trio had something going for them that Foster/Williams/Krauel haven't had since their freshman year - Bridgeland.

While it is true that a more seasoned coach may not have made some of the same mistakes that Lunt did in his first 2 years, almost all the players were happier to have Lunt in control than Bridgeland.  Lunt is much more personable and can actually be told your opinion where as you had to tell Bridgeland what he wanted to hear.

All that aside, the players are the ones who actually play/win games. In my opinion the major difference between the Foster/Williams/Krauel group and McVey/Curtiss/Walker group is mental toughness. When things got tough, the latter group dug down deep and found a way to win. My guess is that it developed during their 1st year or two when sh*t hit the fan when they were a .500 team as opposed to coming in winning a conference title and making the elite 8 during their freshmen year.

Logshock, yes Bridgeland was more seasoned as you mentioned, and the players may be happier playing for Lunt, and I don't know either, just what I saw on the sidelines, and what you say is probably true too - that Lunt is much more personable......  Yet as you mention the major difference is mental toughness, when things got tough the first group dug down deep and found a way to win, that's a reflection of the coach......  A team takes on the personality of its coach, and from your assessment that first group had a bigger set of you know what, thanks a big part to its coach.....  Bridgeland's job was not to be their friends but to make them champions... 

[logshock101]

Logshock, yes Bridgeland was more seasoned as you mentioned, and the players may be happier playing for Lunt, and I don't know either, just what I saw on the sidelines, and what you say is probably true too - that Lunt is much more personable......  Yet as you mention the major difference is mental toughness, when things got tough the first group dug down deep and found a way to win, that's a reflection of the coach......  A team takes on the personality of its coach, and from your assessment that first group had a bigger set of you know what, thanks a big part to its coach.....  Bridgeland's job was not to be their friends but to make them champions... 

True...although I feel that Lunt can be just as intense at practice, his players doesn't seem to have the fear that he might just go psycho flipout and pile drive a player into the court and/or turn suicidal.

Maybe once this group of seniors is gone, players will not longer look at him as "just Coach Lunt" since he used to be the good guy assistant coach, the buffer between good and evil. Once this class is gone they will all be Lunts guys that he brought in as the head hancho.

[mtnman]

i worked at ups for a long time and was around athletics for over a decade there.  bridgeland was the best i ever saw.  now doubt he was intense, but what i gathered the players that played for him would have killed for him if he needed them to. if i recall, coach lunt was bridgelands 2nd or 3rd assitant adn joined the team after he had already won 1 conference crown and contributed to the last 2. i am sure coach lunt is improving yearly, but i dont see a reason to bash bridgeland or make up stories.  as a communicator or whatevr--all i know is that athlteics was dead before he arrived at ups and now they win