2011 Basketball Tournament TOP LEFT BRACKET discussion board

[nwhoops1903]

I can't say I know much about Ohio D3 but I can speak to Far West teams a bit and the Marietta at La Verne game 2 months ago is interesting.

http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2010-11/contrib/20101231t492bj

1st off, La Verne lost to Oxy, and we all know who Oxy lost too this season.  La Verne was no slouch but Chapman was CLEARLY a better team than the Leopards.  Marietta narrowly won this game.  La Verne held them below their averages and got them into some foul trouble.  This game was the night after they had dismantled Redlands.  Probably some over confidence and time zone fatigue played out.  La Verne outrebounded and had 7 more made FT's but overall, this game was too close. 

I suspect they will embrace the underdog roll Friday night and get a shot at Wooster, assuming Scots win.  Why doesn't OAC play NCAC more?  Marietta's game against Dennison was again, too close for a #11th ranked team.  Capital couldn't match Wittenberg and they owned Marietta.   

[ScotsFan]

I can't say I know much about Ohio D3 but I can speak to Far West teams a bit and the Marietta at La Verne game 2 months ago is interesting.

http://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/men/2010-11/contrib/20101231t492bj

1st off, La Verne lost to Oxy, and we all know who Oxy lost too this season.  La Verne was no slouch but Chapman was CLEARLY a better team than the Leopards.  Marietta narrowly won this game.  La Verne held them below their averages and got them into some foul trouble.  This game was the night after they had dismantled Redlands.  Probably some over confidence and time zone fatigue played out.  La Verne outrebounded and had 7 more made FT's but overall, this game was too close. 

I suspect they will embrace the underdog roll Friday night and get a shot at Wooster, assuming Scots win.  Why doesn't OAC play NCAC more?  Marietta's game against Dennison was again, too close for a #11th ranked team.  Capital couldn't match Wittenberg and they owned Marietta.    

First of all, I wouldn't look too much into that close game out in Cali.  As you said, it was the 2nd game of a 2 night west coast swing for the Pioneers so I'm sure there was some time zone fatigue going on as you mentioned and just fatigue in general from playing 2 games back to back.

Second of all, the OAC and NCAC do play quite a bit.  But there's also several other Great Lakes Region teams from conferences such as the  PrAC, HCAC and MIAA to name a few which offer alternatives.  Wooster went 3-0 vs. the OAC this season BTW (ONU, JCU, Wilmington). 

Lastly, I wouldn't put too much stock in trying to use comparitive scores either.  Wooster beat Denison by 30 the first time they played and only by 8 in the re-match.  Conversly, Wooster needed a last second 3-pointer to beat Allegheny in their first meeting and then waxed the Gators by 32 in the re-match.  And Denison beat Chicago who beat IWU who was an at-large team in the NCAA tournament.  Does that make Denison better than IWU?  Not so much.

Also, it was Witt that couldn't match Capital as the Crusaders won that early season matchup to the tune of 80-56.  Witt was also without the services of 2 returning starters who were still transitioning from football to basketball in that game and had some other key early season injuries to deal with which would explain Witt's slow start and strong finish to the season.  Another reason not to put too much stock into comparitive scores because you don't know if one team might have been dealing with injuries or whatnot...

[nwhoops1903]

I sure read that Capital Witt game backwards. Glad you corrected me Scotsfan, I was about to underestimated OAC.  I am thinking the NCAC is traditionally and historically considered a superior conference.  Is this correct over the last 5 years?  Common opponents has some validity regardless of date on schedule IMHO.  Teams should be improving but then so should the team they played.  Teams that get hot in Feb. are dangerous but my theory is that the tourney is the third season in a year.  Some teams know how to win their conference but not much else. 

[imderekpoe]

I sure read that Capital Witt game backwards. Glad you corrected me Scotsfan, I was about to underestimated OAC.  I am thinking the NCAC is traditionally and historically considered a superior conference.  Is this correct over the last 5 years?  Common opponents has some validity regardless of date on schedule IMHO.  Teams should be improving but then so should the team they played.  Teams that get hot in Feb. are dangerous but my theory is that the tourney is the third season in a year.  Some teams know how to win their conference but not much else. 

I would say that historically the best teams in the NCAC have been stronger than the best in the OAC, but the OAC has been stronger from top to bottom.  This year was probably an exception where the NCAC may have been stronger overall as well.

[ScotsFan]

I sure read that Capital Witt game backwards. Glad you corrected me Scotsfan, I was about to underestimated OAC.  I am thinking the NCAC is traditionally and historically considered a superior conference.  Is this correct over the last 5 years?  Common opponents has some validity regardless of date on schedule IMHO.  Teams should be improving but then so should the team they played.  Teams that get hot in Feb. are dangerous but my theory is that the tourney is the third season in a year.  Some teams know how to win their conference but not much else. 

To tag onto derek's post, the OAC has always been superior to the NCAC top to bottom, IMO.  In fact, it wasn't too long ago that one could argue that the OAC was right up there just behind the WIAC and the CCIW as one of the top basketball conferences in the country.  In comparing the OAC with the NCAC, at the top, (top 3-4 teams) it's pretty even between the two conferences.  But the OAC is much deeper as far as quality teams go.  The NCAC has been getting more competitive from their mid-tier teams the past couple of years, but they haven't been even with the OAC.  Now, with that said, I don't think the OAC was as strong this season as it has been in years past, and as derek said, the NCAC may have been a bit better, but that's a matter of debate.  The depth just wasn't there this year in the OAC that we are accustomed to seeing and even the top teams weren't as strong as evidenced by only one team making it into the NCAA's.

And trust me, I can testify firsthand to teams getting hot at the wrong time of the season.  Wooster has done this faaaaar too often where they look unstoppable at certain parts of the season only to lose that edge come tournament time and bow out far too early.     Wooster has been seeming to improve on their performances in the NCAA's this past decade as they have made it to Salem twice and have advanced as far as the sweet sixteen in 7 of the last 13 tournaments.  And as a result of their improved performances over the last decade,  their overall NCAA tournament record has finally surpasssed the .500 mark as they came into this season at 20-20 in their 20 appearances in the tournament.  They now sit at 22-20 with their 2 wins last weekend!    

[nwhoops1903]

Gonna be a great weekend!  Can't wait.  

Favorites and Underdogs

Whitworth over Marietta
Wooster over Cabrini
Amherst over Rhode Island
Augustana over MHB

Is there a HEAVY favorite?  All 4 'dogs believe they can win anywhere.  I predict 1 upset and an OT narrow miss by a second.  No idea which is which.  

Anyone can win

UW - Stevens Point vs St. Thomas
St. Mary's vs Buffalo St.
Rochester vs Middlebury            
Williams vs Virginia Wesleyan

Home team advantage could be difference makers here.  Point looks for revenge and St. Mary's looks to go deeper.

[sac]

I think Wooster and Amherst would be big statistical favorites in their games.

[Ralph Turner]

Gonna be a great weekend!  Can't wait.  

Favorites and Underdogs

Whitworth over Marietta
Wooster over Cabrini
Amherst over Rhode Island
Augustana over MHB

Is there a HEAVY favorite?  All 4 'dogs believe they can win anywhere.  I predict 1 upset and an OT narrow miss by a second.  No idea which is which.  

Anyone can win

UW - Stevens Point vs St. Thomas
St. Mary's vs Buffalo St.
Rochester vs Middlebury            
Williams vs Virginia Wesleyan

Home team advantage could be difference makers here.  Point looks for revenge and St. Mary's looks to go deeper.

I think that #3 Augie is a 10-point favorite over (RV) UMHB on a neutral court.  I believe that Augie also has a 7 point Home Court Advantage over a team that is flying from another part of the country.  Augie by 15-17 points.  That margin may vary depending on how many minutes the Augie starters play.  Leading UMHB by 14 with 6 minutes to play may give Augie a chance to rest the starters for a really tough battle on Saturday, in turn seeing the margin melt down to 10-12.

[ScotsFan]

I think Wooster and Amherst would be big statistical favorites in their games.

Not if Wooster plays like they did last weekend.  Now, if they can somehow find the form they showed in the NCAC semis and finals 2 weeks ago? 

[nwhoops1903]

I think Wooster and Amherst would be big statistical favorites in their games.

Not if Wooster plays like they did last weekend.  Now, if they can somehow find the form they showed in the NCAC semis and finals 2 weeks ago? 

Which of my 4 favorites is most vulnerable?  Sounds like Wooster.

[(509)Rat]

If turnovers continue to plague Wooster then Cabrini presents an obvious problem. But some re-focusing and a home court should be enough for the Scots...

I'm sure the Spokane folk have seen this but here's an interview with Whitworth coach Jim Hayford. The "NCAA letter" comment was funny. Hopefully Hayford is right and the players take the travel situation as a big slap in the face. Just more motivation to beat Marietta in their own backyard. The EWU coaching vacancy was an interesting question...Marietta better hope it ends up distracting the players, and Hayford, and the assistant coaches, and the athletic trainers...gonna need all the help they can get to beat the Pirates tomorrow!  

Jim Hayford on Marietta, the Sweet 16 and more

[(509)Rat]

Sounds like Whitworth will only have a handful of folks travel to the game. 50 ish. But over half of them will be from Brewester, WA!

If your local grocer doesn't have fresh apples this next week it's because the orchards owners will all be in Ohio to watch the Gebbers brothers and their cousin Mike Taylor 

[nwhoops1903]

Sounds like Whitworth will only have a handful of folks travel to the game. 50 ish. But over half of them will be from Brewester, WA!

If your local grocer doesn't have fresh apples this next week it's because the orchards owners will all be in Ohio to watch the Gebbers brothers and their cousin Mike Taylor 

I think there is a semi larger group waiting for Salem if it happens.

[woosterbooster]

I'm sure the Spokane folk have seen this but here's an interview with Whitworth coach Jim Hayford. The "NCAA letter" comment was funny. Hopefully Hayford is right and the players take the travel situation as a big slap in the face. Just more motivation to beat Marietta in their own backyard.

Now, just a sec here.  It wasn't Marietta or Wooster that slapped Whitworth in the face.  As a matter of fact, I have it on good stead that the Scots coaching staff got together and wrote their own letter to the NCAA just prior to their determination of the sectional locations.  Turns out I have a copy...

Dear August Body,

    As we would certainly not want to imply that it is our choice rather than yours as to where the sectional match-ups will be held, we will not officially remove ourselves from hosting consideration.  However, our gym is small, our fan base non-existent, our hospitality suspect, our politics dubious.  As a matter of fact, this letter may be our last legal act of collective bargaining.

    We believe that the number one ranked team, Whitworth University, deserves the honor.  We understand that Spokane and the entire pacific northwest are beautiful at this time of year.  Apples, rain, sasquatches, we love them.  Besides, several of our players have noted that they are in need of new rims for their cars.  Don't think for a minute that we rubes of Ohio haven't heard of Pacific Rims; we know they are the best.

Thanks for lending your ears,
Coach Moore and The College of Wooster Staff



   

[dahlby]

My wife and I prefer the "jazz" apples from Washington. Very tasty and refreshing.

My wife also is cheering for the Pirates, as she thinks their mascot is really cute!