Lacrosse

[amh63]

PolarCat...."suck eggs"?  Haven't heard that in a long, long time .  Do wonder where posters here grew up. .  City boy myself.

Bomber798891....your comment wrt to football, handle and age really aroused my curiosity.  Thought the numbers may relate to family members graduation years, or jersey numbers or some combo of things.  In any case, I will just leave it...and put it in my mystery box.  Have to schedule a visit to the Ithaca campus next month when I visit the area.  The present Amherst Prez had a house near the campus...the other hill from Cornell..when she was the Provost of Cornell.

[Bombers798891]

And while our little buddy cranks up his -K machine, I might as well make another comment.  It's unfortunate this board has turned into a NESCAC lovefest, with (Bombers and AndOne aside) so little participation from other regions. 

Well, I've posted in here all of three times, and will assuredly drop out as soon as the Bombers' fade from nationally elite status.

But this issue you're describing is really prevalent in a lot of places on these boards. You need a critical mass of people to respond to things, otherwise, you're just talking to yourself. When I came across this board, I was a bit hesitant to post, because it seemed like it was all NESCAC stuff. But it seems like there's at least enough national interest that I can chat about the Bombers.

But the MUC coach is still practicing her own brand of "sportsmanship", blowing out Muskingum 22-1 and Wilmington by an inexcusable (in my mind, at least) 29-1. 

So, I wanted to offer an opinion on this, because while I despise running up the score, I also think there are times where we honestly have to ask what teams can do.

In a glance at the box score, in the the Wilmington game, Mount scored on their first 19 shots on goal and on 29 of 34 overall. So pretty much, if you want the scoring to stop, you have to stop shooting. Which you can do, I remember Princeton men's lax having a rule if they had 19 goals and a 10-goal lead they wouldn't shoot. But okay, so you empty the bench, tell the players not to shoot, get possession on offense and just pass the ball around for the entire 2nd half...is anyone (on either team) benefitting from that? Are they developing as players?

I remember the first time Ithaca played Utica in football. It was 66-0, and 35-0 in the first quarter, Ithaca played four different running backs and all three quarterbacks, the last of whom played all but one series of the 4th quarter and didn't throw a pass. Allegedly, Utica's coach got upset at Ithaca for running up the score, and the response from someone was something along the lines of "If you can't stop a fullback dive up the middle, I don't think that's our fault"

There comes a point, in any blowout, where you need to apply the brakes, hard if need be. But I think there has to also be a minimum amount of resistance from the other team throughout the game. No one gains anything if everyone is just standing around waiting for the clock to run out. I've covered games where that's essentially what's happened, and sometimes, the body language from the losing team is worse then. You might as well end the game at that point.

This isn't really meant as taking a side on Mount one way or the other, because I know nothing about it. It's more just an opinion on blowouts in general, and I think there's sometimes more to it than pointing to the winning team and saying "Not cool"

[Bombers798891]

Bomber798891....your comment wrt to football, handle and age really aroused my curiosity.  Thought the numbers may relate to family members graduation years, or jersey numbers or some combo of things.  In any case, I will just leave it...and put it in my mystery box. 

No real mystery. Those are the three years Ithaca won football national titles. I wasn't alive for '79, but started going to games in 1988, when I was five. Bomber football will always be my main sports passion, and I would trade any title any of my other favorite teams have won since then for another Ithaca football title, hands down (That included the N.Y. Rangers' Stanley Cup in 1994). 

[Vandy74]

The North Central Cardinals of the CCIW have been mowing down their competition lately. Their record currently stands at 11-2, with both losses being by a single point. For the season they have outscored their opponents 236-76 (+160). The Cards have, to date, been led in goals by Gina Fisher (49), Claire Norfleet (43), and Madison Maas (41). Fisher is NCC's career leader in goals, assists, and just about every other statistical category. In Saturday's 22-2 win, even defensive wizard Rebecca James  slammed in a goal after being given a chance on the offensive end.

Tough competition comes to town on Wed when the Cards will host the 12-1 Augustana Vikings. Augie has outscored their opponents 208-65 (+143). The Vikngs, last season's conference champs, were picked to repeat while the Cardinals were picked for third.

This should be interesting.  I wish I didn't have early evening commitments.  I hope to catch the 2nd half.  This rivalry goes back to the MWLC where these programs developed before the CCIW sponsored the sport.  Augie has taken huge strides but NCC has continued to improve as well.  Augustana is the favorite but I think North Central has the talent to beat them.  But they can only do it once so they probably shouldn't play to win tonight.   But that's not their plan.  Gina Fisher and Claire Norfleet are as talented a pair as you'll find on any team.  It's been fun watching them the last three years.   Go Cardinals!

[Vandy74]

This one played out like I expected it would.  Augustana led 7-2 at the half, which I didn't see.  I tuned in just in time to watch NCC close the gap to a 7-5 margin and shortly after Gina Fisher passed up on a free position shot, circled around once keeping the ball and then rushed the net firing it home. 7-6.  Heads up play by a smart player.  But unfortunately it served as a wake-up call to Augie who changed goalies and began too dominate in every phase of the game.  13-7 was the final score.  The CCIW tournament winner will be Augustana or the team that beats them.  North Central proved tonight they can play with them.  Carthage is another CCIW program that takes the game very seriously.

AndOne, keep us posted.

[Vandy74]

Tufts beat Bates today Polarcat so feel free to change your story.  The Jumbos now seem a lock for the 6th seed and if Middlebury beats Colby on Saturday the Mules' match up against the Bobcats will determine which gains #4 and which settles for #5.  Then they'll have to play each other again.   Middlebury's difficulties with Colby in recent years and Trinity's final regular season game being against Amherst set up a scenario that could see four teams tied at 8-2.  I have no idea what set of tiebreakers would determine the seeding.  What I do know is that nobody wants to play Tufts in the quarterfinal round.

Well don't that suck eggs?  For the Bobcats and the Polar Bears. 

It would have been wonderful for the Bates Women's program to finally host a playoff game on Garcelon Field.  The odds of that happening are dwindling.  And the Bears only avenue into the playoffs (as #8 seed) is to beat the Jumbos on Wednesday.  Stranger things have happened, but barring an act of God - the entire Tufts team comes down with shingles this week? - I fear it's too big a challenge for the banged-up Bears.

What a conference, hunh?  Amazing parity on both the Men's and the Women's sides.  NESCAC is on the verge of becoming the Lake Woebegone of NCAA lacrosse, where all the teams are exceptional.  (I expect a renewed barrage of -K's from you-know-who for that, but it's true).

Bates controls her own destiny PolarCat.  Beat Conn. Coll.  If they can't do that then this conversation is pointless.  That will make them 6-3 with a game they play host to Colby remaining.  Colby can be either 7-2 or 6-3 depending on how they fare against Middlebury.  Either way a Bates win leaves both teams with the same record and the Bobcats as the winner of the game against each other.  Amherst could lose to Trinity.  Middlebury could lose to Colby.  They each travel to Williams for their remaining contest.  Amherst-Williams is Amherst-Williams in any sport.  The Ephs are a program that has twice played in the national championship game.  They haven't been a top Nescac team recently but they are always capable of ruining anyone's season who takes them lightly.

Have you seen this or did you know about it?  The article is nine months old.  I overheard some talking about this at one of the Middlebury games over the weekend.

www.ncaa.com/news/lacrosse-women-/article/2015-07-16/womens-lacrosse-will-have-90-second-possession-clock-2017

It will be hard not to run up the score when the rule says you have to shoot.  You're not going to tell your players to get in the habit of taking errant shots.

[Vandy74]

Vandy74......have been wondering where you been !  See you have been busy....like the Panthers' women team.  Do believe as the school year ends, the multi games short schedule impacts the play of players/ teams.  Amherst seniors have the pressure of wrapping up thesis work, etc.  In any case, it appears that the upcoming conference tournaments...men and women....will be most interesting and competitative.

Seems our mutual irrational irritant is still around.  Been trying to keep up. ...both ends.

Yes, our little buddy Junior Numbnutz has no quit in him.  To quote the Bard...err........Dan Patrick....."You can't stop him you can only hope to contain him."

Far more important are the upcoming conference tournaments.

[jknezek]

I follow the ODAC fairly closely as a W&L grad, but there is way more talk about DIII lax in another spot. It happens, even as good as these boards are in other sports.

[PolarCat]

Have you seen this or did you know about it?  The article is nine months old.  I overheard some talking about this at one of the Middlebury games over the weekend.

www.ncaa.com/news/lacrosse-women-/article/2015-07-16/womens-lacrosse-will-have-90-second-possession-clock-2017

It will be hard not to run up the score when the rule says you have to shoot.  You're not going to tell your players to get in the habit of taking errant shots.

Yes, I knew about the shot clock, and I think it's great.  But this may be a great example of The Rule of Unintended Consequences.

The shot clock is coming into play to curtail stall ball.  Like in last year's DI championship, where Maryland was up 9-7, and then just passed the ball and ran out the clock for 7 or 8 minutes.  That makes for sucky lacrosse for the players and the fans.

You're correct in saying the shot clock will make you shoot.  But that doesn't necessarily mean a smart coach (like Missy) will make her players score.  If  you have an attacker on the end line, you could deliberately shoot high or wide, retain possession, and restart the shot clock.  Or if you were blowing out the opponent, and your own moral compass said embarassing an opponent does no one - nor the sport - any good, you could institute rules like PolarKitten's prep school coach: Only shoot left handed.  Only shoot underhand.  Work on your quick stick.  Give the defenders (and in one memorable game, the GK) a chance to play attack.

Maybe a coach will claim the shot clock "made" them run up a 29-1 score, but I won't believe them for a moment.  And in today's game, they don't even have that lame excuse.

[Bombers798891]

It will be hard not to run up the score when the rule says you have to shoot. 

Again, I want to reiterate I am not taking sides, and have not seen the game highlights.

But IMO, this is probably not true. Football teams do this all the time, and the rules are essentially dictating the same thing. A lacrosse team has to shoot and a football team has to run offensive plays*

*Technically, neither of them do. Lax teams could just accept the penalty and give up the ball, and football teams could choose to punt. But in the interest of not being pedantic, let's say these things won't happen.

Not running up the score does not mean not scoring, period, IMO. As I said before, at some point, the other team has to do something to help themselves. It's more about the actions you take to prevent the score from going needlessly higher.

In general, I think almost all teams are really good at employing those strategies. The issue is that they wait too long to do them. What seems to happen in most cases where this is an issue (in all sports with almost all teams) is:

1. The starters get left in doing their thing until the coach is satisfied that the lead is disaster-proof.
2. Then, the backups come in, but because coaches want to get them some real work—pragmatically, to help prepare them for if they need to come in if there's an injury, and also just because backups deserve a chance to play and score, too—they do their thing and extend the lead even further.
3. Then, the brakes get applied, and everyone just chills.

Generally, I think the issue is that coaches play it too safe in step one. They overestimate what a truly safe lead is, and thus the game's *already* a blowout when the backups come in. So even if you're just letting some backup attack person score her first goal of the season because she's worked hard all year in practice, and deserves it, or it's your backup QB's first chance to throw it all season it looks like you're just running it up because it's already 18-0, or 42-0 or whatever. If that goal gets scored when it's 7-0, or the pass thrown when it's 21-0 things look totally different.

[pg04]

I follow the ODAC fairly closely as a W&L grad, but there is way more talk about DIII lax in another spot. It happens, even as good as these boards are in other sports.

It's a similar scenario for hockey. I tried to get going on the hockey boards here but most post on another site.

[PolarCat]

Wow.  What a day for NESCAC WLAX.  TWO separate 2 OT games.  There's no better way to spend a rainy Spring Saturday than watching Trinity battle back against Hamilton and Amherst squeak by Williams on the big screen.  (Thank you, Chromecast).

A big battle for the final tournament slot on Wednesday night.  Bowdoin (who destroyed Wheaton today, 16-3 in a game that wasn't that close) faces Tufts, who had their hands full today with Wes (who hung with the Jumbo's and were only down by 1 with under a minute to play).  If Bowdoin wins, they will squeak past Williams for the #8 seed.  (Unless the Ephs somehow beat Midd on Wednesday night).

[amh63]

Was watching a bunch of games today.....lacrosse, softball, and baseball.  It was a big Amherst vs Williams weekend!
Yes, the women's lacrosse game in Willytown was a strange game, IMO, and one that proved Vandy74 to be a sort of prophet.  Amherst had a three goal lead in the second half when Williams ties the game at 8-8! With less than three minutes to go. The lady Ephs goes ahead 9-8 with 21 seconds to go and Amherst calls time out...I switched to the men's game.  When Amherst goes up by five, I turn back to see that Amherst has forced the game into OT.  Amherst scores in the sudden death situation to win 10-9.
The men's game ends up 11-8 as Amherst runs out the clock on Seniors day....Amherst said thank you to 12 seniors!

Meanwhile Amherst wins the first game of a double header softball game against Williams at Amherst.
At Midd, the Amherst baseball team comes back from a 7-1 deficit in the 2nd to win 8-7 in a seven inning game.  It was a big weekend for the Panthers' HC who is retiring after this season...32 years at the job.....250 in attendance at the dinner on Friday, including the Amherst's HC, a former player at Midd.
Windy but a cool sunny day in Vermont and Western Ma. 

[NCF]

The North Central women lost to Illinois Wesleyan today by the score of 7-10. That's the second conference loss for the Cardinals after losing to conference favorite, Augustana on Wednesday.

[Vandy74]

Wow.  What a day for NESCAC WLAX.  TWO separate 2 OT games.  There's no better way to spend a rainy Spring Saturday than watching Trinity battle back against Hamilton and Amherst squeak by Williams on the big screen.  (Thank you, Chromecast).

A big battle for the final tournament slot on Wednesday night.  Bowdoin (who destroyed Wheaton today, 16-3 in a game that wasn't that close) faces Tufts, who had their hands full today with Wes (who hung with the Jumbo's and were only down by 1 with under a minute to play).  If Bowdoin wins, they will squeak past Williams for the #8 seed.  (Unless the Ephs somehow beat Midd on Wednesday night).

We'll do what we can for you PolarCat and good luck against Tufts.  Williams will either be already beaten or out for blood, anybody's, on Wednesday.  And it's at their place.  Middlebury will be rooting for Amherst to beat Trinity of course.  I was surprised how easily the Panthers handled Colby today winning 12-2.