118th Monon Bell Classic

[smedindy]

Last four DPU coaches: Long, Walker, Rogers, Lynch

Last four Wabash coaches: Raeburn, Creighton, Carlson, Parrish.

Yes, it goes back to Stan Parrish, the man who coached Pete Metzelaars at Wabash. 

Smeds.... years comparison?  may illustrate the point even more.

put the years in there?? who cares??  the walker one really stings....the true story still hasn't manifested, though some know it.  Lynch stayed one year, won the Bell and left for IU - tough to blame him for that.  Long has led DePauw to the playoffs back to back years after we never qualified prior to that.....I'll give you Rogers......tack on Nick and that's 5 coaches - and yes, Nick is the man who coached against Metzelaars.....

I could have went back to Frank Navarro, the man who really gave a boost to Wabash's football tradition culminating in a Stagg Bowl appearance. But it illustrates the short term instability at DPU, which is a problem.

The NCAC has some long-term coaches. Coaches at Allegheny, Wittenberg, OWU, Oberlin and Wooster all have very long term coaches. Hatem at Denison has been in the program since 2005 and is well respected in Ohio. Stanley has been at Kenyon eight years. Only Hiram has turned coaches around with regularity, and see where the Terriers are.

[DPUIrish1]

you guys....read a post or two back from me....i said i AGREE.....I know we're getting beat in the recruiting market with the instability in our coaching department...The coaching changes make me sick - for whatever the reason - leaving for bigger programs, suing, whatever it is...it's not good.  I'm not making light of the situation.

We were bound for a step back this season - with 7 ROAD GAMES....and 2 losing our 1st and 2nd string quarterbacks for the season due to injury.  I get it.  So, no, I don't need to do the research, and we don't need to go back to when Wabash was playing for the Stagg Bowl, because it's irrelevant.  I expected to go through a few years of tough times when Nick left, but I'm sure he'd tell you, if he knew it would've been like this, he could've just been DPU's version of JoePa and stayed on for stability.

[smedindy]

Frankly, I thought when coach Nick left DPU was going to find their own version of Chris Creighton - a young vibrant coach with a winning philosophy.

[DPUIrish1]

Frankly, I thought when coach Nick left DPU was going to find their own version of Chris Creighton - a young vibrant coach with a winning philosophy.

couldn't agree more....had Walker and he blew it......

we HAVE to find that guy again.....maybe it is Long....something though, tells me it's not

[D3_DPUFan]

Hopefully, Depauw finds some stability in that area........  the program needs it.   Actually, many times after schools lose a long-time leader like Coach Nick,  it takes awhile to find the next one.    Wabash got lucky with ER (Tweeters listening?) .....  Maybe Long is it.  Time will tell.

Dudes, I'm not even being a homer when I tell you that you are absolutely losing recruits to Wabash because
you can't keep a coach. It's not even debatable. I would love to hear the argument for how Depauw has overcome not one, not two, not three, but four--FOUR!--different off-seasons in the last 7 years telling recruits that hey, sorry, if you hold the phone for a few weeks while we get our house in order, we can tell you who'll be leading things around here.

I agree with what both of you are saying, bashbrother and DPUIrish. At the risk of stating the obvious, the Tigers need to establish some consistency with the head job. No question and I think Robby can be that guy. Regarding recruiting, I did a quick roster scan (very quick)...the 2006 class shrunk after the Rogers exit, but still included Dick, Mulligan and Fitch; didn't seem to be an impact in 2007 class with Koors, Sherer, Preuss, Doane, Huffman to name a few; 2008, Turnbow, Johnson, Valdeserri, Lewis Brown...what you say makes sense...that DPU could lose recruits because of the coaching carousel...but who are they? Again, I agree that head coaching situation needs to be stabalized, but just as importantly, back to an earlier post, the administration (Casey and new AD) need to make a few moves to support the program in a more forceful way...IMHO...

[Breckenridgebear]

you guys....read a post or two back from me....i said i AGREE.....I know we're getting beat in the recruiting market with the instability in our coaching department...The coaching changes make me sick - for whatever the reason - leaving for bigger programs, suing, whatever it is...it's not good.  I'm not making light of the situation.

We were bound for a step back this season - with 7 ROAD GAMES....and 2 losing our 1st and 2nd string quarterbacks for the season due to injury.  I get it.  So, no, I don't need to do the research, and we don't need to go back to when Wabash was playing for the Stagg Bowl, because it's irrelevant.  I expected to go through a few years of tough times when Nick left, but I'm sure he'd tell you, if he knew it would've been like this, he could've just been DPU's version of JoePa and stayed on for stability.

I disagree DPUIrish. Any recruit who decides to Dabash over Depauw either, 1) Doesn't have the scores to get into Depauw, or 2) has some other pressure making him decide to go to Dabash. I doubt Depauw is losing its recruits to the all boyzzz technical institute up North unless Dabash is offering more than an opportunity to play D3 football. We are having a down season right now, but we were 2010 SCAC Champions, 2009 SCAC Co-Champs, Qualified for the Playoffs both those years, and have had 15 straight .500 plus seasons. We may have had coaching changes since Nick left, but the stats don't show a program in trouble. Sure this season is a rough one, but we did lose 2 QBs and have had enough away games that any one home game is Homecoming, Community Appriciation, and Senior Day. As it stands right now a Depauw Monon Win will erase those few loses. 

Frankly, I thought when coach Nick left DPU was going to find their own version of Chris Creighton - a young vibrant coach with a winning philosophy.

couldn't agree more....had Walker and he blew it......

we HAVE to find that guy again.....maybe it is Long....something though, tells me it's not

Walker blowing it is a stretch. I think University Politics are to blame for that one. If anything, Depauw blew it with letting Walker get away.

[Breckenridgebear]

Hopefully, Depauw finds some stability in that area........  the program needs it.   Actually, many times after schools lose a long-time leader like Coach Nick,  it takes awhile to find the next one.    Wabash got lucky with ER (Tweeters listening?) .....  Maybe Long is it.  Time will tell.

Dudes, I'm not even being a homer when I tell you that you are absolutely losing recruits to Wabash because
you can't keep a coach. It's not even debatable. I would love to hear the argument for how Depauw has overcome not one, not two, not three, but four--FOUR!--different off-seasons in the last 7 years telling recruits that hey, sorry, if you hold the phone for a few weeks while we get our house in order, we can tell you who'll be leading things around here.

I agree with what both of you are saying, bashbrother and DPUIrish. At the risk of stating the obvious, the Tigers need to establish some consistency with the head job. No question and I think Robby can be that guy. Regarding recruiting, I did a quick roster scan (very quick)...the 2006 class shrunk after the Rogers exit, but still included Dick, Mulligan and Fitch; didn't seem to be an impact in 2007 class with Koors, Sherer, Preuss, Doane, Huffman to name a few; 2008, Turnbow, Johnson, Valdeserri, Lewis Brown...what you say makes sense...that DPU could lose recruits because of the coaching carousel...but who are they? Again, I agree that head coaching situation needs to be stabalized, but just as importantly, back to an earlier post, the administration (Casey and new AD) need to make a few moves to support the program in a more forceful way...IMHO...

It would be interesting to see which recruits actually went to Dabash over Depauw.

[Breckenridgebear]

http://www.depauw.edu/news/?id=27820

[DPUIrish1]

[/quote]

I disagree DPUIrish. Any recruit who decides to Dabash over Depauw either, 1) Doesn't have the scores to get into Depauw, or 2) has some other pressure making him decide to go to Dabash. I doubt Depauw is losing its recruits to the all boyzzz technical institute up North unless Dabash is offering more than an opportunity to play D3 football. We are having a down season right now, but we were 2010 SCAC Champions, 2009 SCAC Co-Champs, Qualified for the Playoffs both those years, and have had 15 straight .500 plus seasons. We may have had coaching changes since Nick left, but the stats don't show a program in trouble. Sure this season is a rough one, but we did lose 2 QBs and have had enough away games that any one home game is Homecoming, Community Appriciation, and Senior Day. As it stands right now a Depauw Monon Win will erase those few loses. 

Frankly, I thought when coach Nick left DPU was going to find their own version of Chris Creighton - a young vibrant coach with a winning philosophy.

couldn't agree more....had Walker and he blew it......

we HAVE to find that guy again.....maybe it is Long....something though, tells me it's not

Walker blowing it is a stretch. I think University Politics are to blame for that one. If anything, Depauw blew it with letting Walker get away.
[/quote]

Bear
I never said we lost recruits to debash....just said we're losing the recruiting war period.  I know a specific example of a left tackle we had in the bag - can dpu for illinois wesleyan at last minute because of coaching uncertainties.....

as for Walker, you know where i stand on that.....I'm in your camp.  University made a horrendous move there.

[Breckenridgebear]

I disagree DPUIrish. Any recruit who decides to Dabash over Depauw either, 1) Doesn't have the scores to get into Depauw, or 2) has some other pressure making him decide to go to Dabash. I doubt Depauw is losing its recruits to the all boyzzz technical institute up North unless Dabash is offering more than an opportunity to play D3 football. We are having a down season right now, but we were 2010 SCAC Champions, 2009 SCAC Co-Champs, Qualified for the Playoffs both those years, and have had 15 straight .500 plus seasons. We may have had coaching changes since Nick left, but the stats don't show a program in trouble. Sure this season is a rough one, but we did lose 2 QBs and have had enough away games that any one home game is Homecoming, Community Appriciation, and Senior Day. As it stands right now a Depauw Monon Win will erase those few loses. 

Frankly, I thought when coach Nick left DPU was going to find their own version of Chris Creighton - a young vibrant coach with a winning philosophy.

couldn't agree more....had Walker and he blew it......

we HAVE to find that guy again.....maybe it is Long....something though, tells me it's not

Walker blowing it is a stretch. I think University Politics are to blame for that one. If anything, Depauw blew it with letting Walker get away.
[/quote]

Bear
I never said we lost recruits to debash....just said we're losing the recruiting war period.  I know a specific example of a left tackle we had in the bag - can dpu for illinois wesleyan at last minute because of coaching uncertainties.....

as for Walker, you know where i stand on that.....I'm in your camp.  University made a horrendous move there.
[/quote]

We are on the same page, just want Dabash County to know that there is the slimmest of chance a Depauw recruit would decide on Dabash over Depauw.

[wally_wabash]

I disagree DPUIrish. Any recruit who decides to Dabash over Depauw either, 1) Doesn't have the scores to get into Depauw, or 2) has some other pressure making him decide to go to Dabash. I doubt Depauw is losing its recruits to the all boyzzz technical institute up North unless Dabash is offering more than an opportunity to play D3 football. We are having a down season right now, but we were 2010 SCAC Champions, 2009 SCAC Co-Champs, Qualified for the Playoffs both those years, and have had 15 straight .500 plus seasons. We may have had coaching changes since Nick left, but the stats don't show a program in trouble. Sure this season is a rough one, but we did lose 2 QBs and have had enough away games that any one home game is Homecoming, Community Appriciation, and Senior Day. As it stands right now a Depauw Monon Win will erase those few loses. 

Everything you just listed off, Wabash has done better.  More consecutive non-losing season, more conference championships, more playoff appearances...now add in that Wabash has actually advanced in the playoffs, has superior alumni and community support on gamedays, and has far superior facilities...you're delusional if you think DePauw is winning a recruiting battle with an unbiased prospective student athlete.  Just delusional.  Taking the programs as a whole, Wabash is absolutely stomping a mudhole in DePauw.  It isn't even close. 

[D3_DPUFan]

Everything you just listed off, Wabash has done better.  More consecutive non-losing season, more conference championships, more playoff appearances...now add in that Wabash has actually advanced in the playoffs, has superior alumni and community support on gamedays, and has far superior facilities...you're delusional if you think DePauw is winning a recruiting battle with an unbiased prospective student athlete.  Just delusional.  Taking the programs as a whole, Wabash is absolutely stomping a mudhole in DePauw.  It isn't even close. 

Exactly what (or who) is an "unbiased student-athlete?" 
And just who are all of these guys DePauw is losing to Wabash?
Superior alumni, delusional? Wow.

[wally_wabash]

Everything you just listed off, Wabash has done better.  More consecutive non-losing season, more conference championships, more playoff appearances...now add in that Wabash has actually advanced in the playoffs, has superior alumni and community support on gamedays, and has far superior facilities...you're delusional if you think DePauw is winning a recruiting battle with an unbiased prospective student athlete.  Just delusional.  Taking the programs as a whole, Wabash is absolutely stomping a mudhole in DePauw.  It isn't even close. 

Exactly what (or who) is an "unbiased student-athlete?" 
And just who are all of these guys DePauw is losing to Wabash?
Superior alumni, delusional? Wow.

I'm talking about prospectives that aren't influenced by things like a family connection to one school or the other...things like that. 

You go back and watch every minute of last year's game.  You tell me who has better players.  Not all of those players were recruited by both schools.  Some of them were.  Many of them chose Wabash...and those that did proved to be way, way better than the players that didn't. That is not disputable. 

[D3_DPUFan]

You really need to breathe, my man. Relax. It will be OK.

[bashbrother]

It is easy to assume that there are players, maybe more than a few.   Being that very few if any on this board have close enough knowledge inside the recruiting process to make comments of fact about recruiting battles won or lost., I think we are all smart enough to know that the recent instability and lack of facility upgrades in the Football program is causing some casualties.  (47-0 probably didn't help) They may not all go to Wabash, but Depauw has lost some better players the last couple of years.  Players they needs to prevent the drop off this year.

It is a pretty simple formula actually -    Recruit quality + Player retention =  Winning team on the field. (32-9 in the previous 4 years.... probably finishing 2011, 3-6)   Recruiting deficiency is a part, if not a big part, of the fall off.  (I left coaching out of the equation on purpose)

Stable programs, may drop off a bit,  but have the depth to not fall of the cliff.

With facility upgrades to match up with what is becoming the norm in D3 and coaching stability; Depauw will be back.   

Injuries are a wash,  every team including Wabash has suffered significant injuries... it's the depth behind the injuries that matters.  Case in point,  Wabash lost a rising-star Linebacker for the season a few games back.... insert Freshman Linebacker without much of a drop-off.... He is currently 5th on the Team in Tackles as a freshman..

(I believe, not certain, that he is one that had Wabash and Depauw as his finalists, as well as one or two others)