FB: Region 4 fan poll

[USee]

Can we just cut this down to a Top 6 poll?
#7 Heidelberg lost, #8 Chicago is losing, #9 DePauw lost, #10 Mount St Joseph lost, #T12 Illinois Wesleyan I think is losing, #T12 Trine lost
Earlham nearly won today... maybe they could sneak in at 10th 

IWU lost 7-2 to Augustana.  Brutal.  This is also the last time in 2014 that I'l mention IWU in this space.

That was IWU's homecoming game. Brutal x2.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Can we just cut this down to a Top 6 poll?
#7 Heidelberg lost, #8 Chicago is losing, #9 DePauw lost, #10 Mount St Joseph lost, #T12 Illinois Wesleyan I think is losing, #T12 Trine lost
Earlham nearly won today... maybe they could sneak in at 10th 

IWU lost 7-2 to Augustana.  Brutal.  This is also the last time in 2014 that I'l mention IWU in this space.

So no mention in two weeks of who North Central will have just beaten that day or Wheaton in 3 weeks?

[wally_wabash]

Can we just cut this down to a Top 6 poll?
#7 Heidelberg lost, #8 Chicago is losing, #9 DePauw lost, #10 Mount St Joseph lost, #T12 Illinois Wesleyan I think is losing, #T12 Trine lost
Earlham nearly won today... maybe they could sneak in at 10th 

IWU lost 7-2 to Augustana.  Brutal.  This is also the last time in 2014 that I'l mention IWU in this space.

So no mention in two weeks of who North Central will have just beaten that day or Wheaton in 3 weeks?

Not taking the bait.   

[smedindy]

Can we just cut this down to a Top 6 poll?
#7 Heidelberg lost, #8 Chicago is losing, #9 DePauw lost, #10 Mount St Joseph lost, #T12 Illinois Wesleyan I think is losing, #T12 Trine lost
Earlham nearly won today... maybe they could sneak in at 10th 

Heidelberg lost a game they were supposed to lose. No need to ding them especially with the other carnage afoot. They're still a better club than whatever the HCAC and MIAA have out there.

Same with Chicago. I mean, they didn't look great, but they weren't supposed to beat Bethel. No need to ding them much.

I guess RHIT and Adrian can get more consideration now? Perhaps OWU, B-W or Otterbein?

[wally_wabash]

Heidelberg lost a game they were supposed to lose. No need to ding them especially with the other carnage afoot. They're still a better club than whatever the HCAC and MIAA have out there.

Are they?  How come every time Heidelberg plays an important game, their best players vanish? 

[smedindy]

They lost to Mt. Union. I don't think anyone in their right mind thought they'd win so I can't say they really vanished today. There wasn't any 'Berg hype this year. They did score 17 on Mt. Union, who had given up just 20 all year. Hooray for small wins!

I think 'Berg may be susceptible when better athletes work a game plan derived to shut down their best players, and Heidelberg hasn't been able to make adjustments. I can't say that Franklin or Adrian or MSJ would beat them this year.

[hazzben]

I don't know what logical argument there is that makes Bethel a favorite over NCC in any location.

How about the fact that Bethel played the playoff game without their MIAC MVP QB, injured in the 3rd Q v. Wartburg the week before. (not saying they win with Peterson, but it matters he didn't play)

While NCC graduated their stud at QB, Bethel brought theirs back.

I'm not saying Bethel wins, still too much season left and some really good MIAC match ups (probably wouldn't say the same about the CCIW this year, which is rare). But there are definitely "logical arguments" to be made for Bethel winning.

[USee]

I don't know what logical argument there is that makes Bethel a favorite over NCC in any location.

How about the fact that Bethel played the playoff game without their MIAC MVP QB, injured in the 3rd Q v. Wartburg the week before. (not saying they win with Peterson, but it matters he didn't play)

While NCC graduated their stud at QB, Bethel brought theirs back.

I'm not saying Bethel wins, still too much season left and some really good MIAC match ups (probably wouldn't say the same about the CCIW this year, which is rare). But there are definitely "logical arguments" to be made for Bethel winning.

Great. If the matchup happens I will expect all you guys to be giving me points. I'll take as many as your confidence will allow.

P.S. What part about Peterson being hurt last year affected your defense giving up 41 pts? I am sure Bethel would have scored 50 with Peterson though!

[wally_wabash]

They lost to Mt. Union. I don't think anyone in their right mind thought they'd win so I can't say they really vanished today. There wasn't any 'Berg hype this year. They did score 17 on Mt. Union, who had given up just 20 all year. Hooray for small wins!

I think 'Berg may be susceptible when better athletes work a game plan derived to shut down their best players, and Heidelberg hasn't been able to make adjustments. I can't say that Franklin or Adrian or MSJ would beat them this year.

Cartel Brooks: 7 carries, one yard.  ONE YARD.  This isn't new, either.  This happens every time we shine the lights on Heidelberg. 

I can't say that Adrian or MSJ would beat them.  I definitely can't say they wouldn't beat them either.  Heidelberg hasn't done a thing to convince me that they're any better than any other 2nd or 3rd place team in the region.  The whole, "hey, Heidelberg used to be awful and now they're not" shine is off for me. 

[Dr. Acula]

Heidelberg stinks defensively.  Bad.  They can't stop a good offense.  Their only chance is to out score people and that will work well enough to go 8-2 again this year.  It just doesn't work against teams like Mount, JCU.  But let's not kid ourselves, IMO they would score all over teams like Franklin (this year), Adrian or MSJ.  The level of athleticism is not the same on those defenses.  The question is could Berg stop any of those 3 teams? 

Also, I thought depending on the outcome today maybe Wooster gets some love.  I watched some of that game.  The only other Scots game I watched was W&J.  Have I picked two duds or are they just that inept defensively?  They did not look good either time.   

[wally_wabash]

Also, I thought depending on the outcome today maybe Wooster gets some love.  I watched some of that game.  The only other Scots game I watched was W&J.  Have I picked two duds or are they just that inept defensively?  They did not look good either time.

Yeah, defense is an issue for Wooster.  Last year, Colaprete moved a bunch of his players around and had a lot of new guys playing new positions and they struggled.  I assumed that they would have been markedly better this year after a year of experience and a year of time with the new coaching staff.  Alas, no.  They are still not very good on defense. 

We spent some time here there and all over Post Patterns discussing the potential for tons of November intrigue in the NCAC.  Today's results have shut all that down and Wabash and Witt will play a de facto championship game in Week 10. 

[USee]

I am shopping for a #9 and #10 team for my poll. Tough duty. Kind of the lesser of all evils. Starting to consider Elmhurst who at 4-2 isn't any worse looking than Adrian or some of the other options. They had a horrible opener losing @Loras but only other loss is to U of Chicago, who remains ranked in my poll. But their best win is Augustana, so slim pickins.

[ADL70]

FWIW Chicago lost all its votes on the D3.com Top 25.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I am shopping for a #9 and #10 team for my poll. Tough duty. Kind of the lesser of all evils. Starting to consider Elmhurst who at 4-2 isn't any worse looking than Adrian or some of the other options. They had a horrible opener losing @Loras but only other loss is to U of Chicago, who remains ranked in my poll. But their best win is Augustana, so slim pickins.

I think Elmhurst would be a reasonable option at the bottom of the poll.  None of the MIAA teams has really stood out (the league as a whole is quite competitive, good for a fan of the league, bad for putting a team into the rankings).  I think Adrian looks a bit stronger than Elmhurst, but they have some odd common-opponent stuff that makes it difficult to be certain of that.

Adrian 40, Carthage 14 (complete domination; yardage 510-157) vs. Elmhurst 49, Carthage 42 (overtime win)
-or-
Olivet 28, Adrian 21 vs. Elmhurst 33, Olivet 27

One point each way, really.  So, uh, take your pick.

One very general note...I think it's tempting for us fans (I'm guilty of this, too, not singling you out, USee, nor anyone else in the voting) to look at the bottom of the poll and say "Ugh, there are only 6 good teams this year!" - forgetting that 1) a 6-4 or 7-3 season, while not nationally competitive, is a successful year for most schools and 2) the fact that these teams are all competing with and beating one another is indicative of some parity in the middle of the Division.

It might mean that there are fewer teams we view as realistic contenders for a deep playoff run, but if it leads to more competitive games in the majority of the regular season, cool.  In that regard I'm a bit envious of fans in leagues like the MIAA and ODAC, which have been perceived as rather middling conferences but over the past few seasons have really had an "Any Given Saturday" feel to them.  The MIAA has not produced a playoff juggernaut for a long time, and perhaps that's just indicative of mediocrity all around the conference, but I think it's neat to enter the season feeling like most everyone in the league will be competitive against one another.

[wally_wabash]

I took a peek at Elmhurst, but passed.  We're at the point in the season where I think if you want to be ranked with two losses, you ought to have some kind of meat on that bone.  Elmhurst does not.  Kind of the same reason I've put Heidelberg back out.  If you're going to be 4-2, you need to have done something with those 4 or made a good accounting for yourself with those 2 and you definitely can't be the only team that lost to Loras.