FB: Region 4 fan poll

[Neverwas]

How do the rankings (I'm most curious about 7-3 NCC) fall if we get the following:
8-2 IWU
8-2 ONU
8-2 JCU
8-2 Witt
8-2 DePauw
7-3 NCC
MIAA runner up
8-2 RHIT (for the sake of the exercise they lose to MSJ)

Which isn't an impossible outcome...

[USee]

We have talked about the WR from IWU, Artie Checchin, who has been their MVP this season but no one has mentioned anyone on the NCC team that is responsible for their results. Maybe I misunderstood your point?

[wally_wabash]

How do the rankings (I'm most curious about 7-3 NCC) fall if we get the following:
8-2 IWU
8-2 ONU
8-2 JCU
8-2 Witt
8-2 DePauw
7-3 NCC
MIAA runner up
8-2 RHIT (for the sake of the exercise they lose to MSJ)

Which isn't an impossible outcome...

I think the big question mark there is how JCU gets to 8-2.  Do they get to 8-2 with a 50 point beatemdown or do they get to 8-2 with a one score nailbiter? 

In any case I'm not sure it will matter how the regional committee orders those teams because I don't think any of those teams with those records are Pool C material.   

[USee]

The only question on that list is the MIAA runnerup, who may well be a 1 loss team. That stands out from the crowd and would require some consideration. But I agree with Wally the rankings on these teams only matter for RR results

[wally_wabash]

If the regional committee agrees with the voters on this board and we accept the common wisdom that NCC has no chance at Pool C, then North Central is going to block all the Pool C candidates in the North.

Or not ranked at all as is the case.

[Li'l Giant]

If the regional committee agrees with the voters on this board and we accept the common wisdom that NCC has no chance at Pool C, then North Central is going to block all the Pool C candidates in the North.

Or not ranked at all as is the case.

I thought they had to be ranked above IWU?! 

[USee]

If the regional committee agrees with the voters on this board and we accept the common wisdom that NCC has no chance at Pool C, then North Central is going to block all the Pool C candidates in the North.

Or not ranked at all as is the case.

I thought they had to be ranked above IWU?! 

No, that's Franklin. 

[Neverwas]

What would have to happen to for Wheaton to be a #1 seed?

It seems only moving Mount to the East (There is precedence there) would allow UD or UWW to move from West to North though I am not sure that helps the West much.  I would think Wheaton's resume would look similar to Wesley's with maybe an extra win against RRO and (A biased take) a better win against a common opponent and a slightly worse SOS?  So, it isn't a huge slight to Wesley and makes an easier path for the, presumed, overall number one seed (Mount). 

There seems to be an overwhelming amount of solid teams in the West so maybe it isn't fair for Wheaton to host three games should they win them... Maybe it is more likely UWO is the North #1 allowing Linfield to be #2 in the West.  Is UWO within 500 miles of most North teams making the field?  If not the West 2nd round games will be real tough... not abnormal I guess.

[thewaterboy]

What would have to happen to for Wheaton to be a #1 seed?

It seems only moving Mount to the East (There is precedence there) would allow UD or UWW to move from West to North though I am not sure that helps the West much.  I would think Wheaton's resume would look similar to Wesley's with maybe an extra win against RRO and (A biased take) a better win against a common opponent and a slightly worse SOS?  So, it isn't a huge slight to Wesley and makes an easier path for the, presumed, overall number one seed (Mount). 

There seems to be an overwhelming amount of solid teams in the West so maybe it isn't fair for Wheaton to host three games should they win them... Maybe it is more likely UWO is the North #1 allowing Linfield to be #2 in the West.  Is UWO within 500 miles of most North teams making the field?  If not the West 2nd round games will be real tough... not abnormal I guess.

In addition to what you said, I, too, could see Mount getting shipped east because that still seems to be the weakest region even with Wesley in it. The north and west are pretty stacked.

Then again, the NCAA could always go the convenient route of keeping Wesley the #1 seed in the east because they are Wesley and they are in the east now instead of the South.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Guys, we really have to stop talking about playoffs by region.  That just isn't how it works any more.  You pick the four #1 seeds, then build the brackets around them.  Mount doesn't get "shipped East" or UWO doesn't get "sent" to the North bracket.  There is no "leave Wesley the #1 seed in the East" or "ship Mount to the East bracket and make Wheaton the #1 seed in the North."  The four top seeds are picked, then they figure out how to get the schools on islands a matchup that they can drive to (or however needed to minimize flights), and things move from there. 

Wally did a breakdown last year or the year before of the number of teams in each playoff grouping by region.  I'll try to find it.

[Neverwas]

Thanks for the reminder.  Would it be better to say Mount playing North region teams or East region teams?  I guess I was wondering what it would take for Wheaton to host 3 games and it sounds like that can't happen unless two of the 5 unbeaten teams ahead of them lose...

I just tried to move Mount to play East teams and it blows a lot of stuff up.  If you do that, with the North only getting one pool C (at the moment) it leaves the North with only 6 teams.  Which likely means UD and a UW school play North teams.  And leaves the East with 9 teams.  Then you have to move one East team to play South teams which causes more problems. 

Seems like Mount playing North region teams is the easiest right now.  But if UWP gets to the board with Albright... and the east never gets a pool C, I think it could happen.  Right now it seems unlikely Mount gets moved, IMO.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I guess I was wondering what it would take for Wheaton to host 3 games

Be one of the four #1 seeds.  That's it.  They pick the top seeds first.  Then they figure out who's playing where.

[wally_wabash]

You can mix and match pretty much in unlimited ways teams from the Midwest to the Mid-Atlantic, which is most of the field.  Berry can drive to a few teams that you might not realize they can drive to.  500 miles is a pretty long way as it turns out.  So, to echo ETP, we shouldn't think about brackets in regional terms because when it's all done here in 10 days, you'll have teams from 3 or even all 4 regions in each quadrant of the bracket. 

I guess I was wondering what it would take for Wheaton to host 3 games and it sounds like that can't happen unless two of the 5 unbeaten teams ahead of them lose...

This is basically correct.  And while Wheaton might have a profile that is similar to Wesley, Wesley went to the semis last year which is pretty much the hammer here.  Wheaton is not really in play for a #1 seed right now. 

[Neverwas]

(sad trombone)

[wabndy]

What would have to happen to for Wheaton to be a #1 seed?

It seems only moving Mount to the East (There is precedence there) would allow UD or UWW to move from West to North though I am not sure that helps the West much.  I would think Wheaton's resume would look similar to Wesley's with maybe an extra win against RRO and (A biased take) a better win against a common opponent and a slightly worse SOS?  So, it isn't a huge slight to Wesley and makes an easier path for the, presumed, overall number one seed (Mount). 

There seems to be an overwhelming amount of solid teams in the West so maybe it isn't fair for Wheaton to host three games should they win them... Maybe it is more likely UWO is the North #1 allowing Linfield to be #2 in the West.  Is UWO within 500 miles of most North teams making the field?  If not the West 2nd round games will be real tough... not abnormal I guess.

In the past the committee basically picks the top four teams in the country and then fluidly works to group 7 other teams around them with an eye toward keeping teams within 500 miles of each other - especially in the first and to a lesser extent second round. 

That being said - I think this may be the year where the national selection committee picks one from each region to be the top seed.  Wesley and Mount Union are undoubtedly going to be in the top 4 (and probably the top 2 with the right to host a semi-final game).  I think the only real chance for one region to get two of the top seeds is if Hardin Simmons draws a loss against East Texas Baptist on Saturday.  All the top seeded West teams have games that they should win in their sleep.  Even if that happens, I think your assumption that a fourth top seed is going to go West.

Both Wheaton and Wabash are hurt by the fact that assuming they come through the regular season clean, they are not going to have any victories against a top 5 regionally ranked opponent.  While its true that Mount doesn't either - thems the breaks for playing in too many stagg bowls.  Even if North Central ends up back in the rankings, they will be limping in at the bottom after some losses shake out above.  A Wheaton win against IWU likewise pushes  the Titans down the list. Wabash is in the same boat - with the chance for DePauw, Wittenberg, and Hampden Sydney to all be in the final regional rankings or none of them.

If I were to change the national selection process in any way it would be to ask each RAC to rank 12-15 teams instead of 10 so that we could get a better comparison of quality wins among the top teams.  There are just so few games that it is nearly impossible for most any team to schedule, at best, 2 games against regionally ranked opponents.