FB: Region 4 fan poll

[TheBerg40]

I'm a little surprised Mount Union got all the 1st place votes, especially since they have a new coach and very few starters returning.

Who would you vote for?  Heidelberg? Their best would-be player transferred. To Mount Union. North Central? For all of their hype, they've never been able to get to a game against the Raiders let alone show that they could win such a game. Franklin will get their shot but we have a recent result to suggest that they have a ways to go to be in Mount Union's territory. Wittenberg doesn't have a defense that could hold Mount Union down. Wabash has some other stuff to clean up before we can have a serious Mount Union conversation with them. There's really not a viable alternative to Mount Union that I can see.

Of course I would vote Heidelberg #1. Of all the North Region teams, they probably have the most experience and skill returning. But as we all know, talk is cheap. Heidelberg will have to prove it on the football field; thank goodness the start of the season is just around the corner. 

Oh and.... whoever picked them 7th should be ashamed of themselves.

[smedindy]

Why should I be ashamed of myself? You've got six teams, after Mt. Union, that at this point could be random number generated between 2 and 7. I put North Central, Wheaton, Franklin, Wabash and Witt ahead of them. I may have sold them a bit short, but there's a wafer-thin mint of difference right now between those squads. We'll know more as players report and practice, and definitely even more when its game time. But right now, they're the 7th best team in my eyes, even though they're closer in value to the #2 squad than the #9 team is to them.

This isn't a poll for homers.

[ExTartanPlayer]

I'll second smedindy's point.  This isn't a poll for homers.  As previously noted, Mount Union has reloaded before and certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

TheBerg, it's far more laughable to suggest that Heidelberg be ranked #1 than it is to suggest they be ranked #7.  Coach Hallett has done a MARVELOUS job building that program and deserves hosannas and accolades all around.  However, with that said...they were bounced in the FIRST round of the playoffs last season by a Wittenberg team that was summarily dismissed in the following round.  So why should one ranking them #7 in this year's preseason poll be "ashamed" of anything?  That's about where they would have been last year, and we have much more recent history in favor of North Central, Wheaton, Franklin, Wittenberg (you know, the team that bounced you guys last year), and Wabash (who beat Wittenberg) than we do Heidelberg.

I'm never a fan of bringing up the long past, but Heidelberg is not far removed from a string of 4-6 seasons (which followed a series of 0-10 seasons).  While those losing seasons are irrelevant now, it IS worth pointing out that plenty of teams have arisen from mediocrity to post a couple of very good seasons and then dropped back into mediocrity while Mount Union churns out titles and finalists year after year after year.  I think Heidelberg is a very promising team this year and would love to see them emerge as an OAC threat to Mount Union.  But we've been down this road before, and the fact is Mount still has yet to be dropped from that perch.

[DPU3619]

My thought on Heidi is that everybody around them might be a lot better.  I don't think they'll regress, I just think the rest of the region is leaps and bounds better than they were a year ago.  I already spoke on Franklin. Witt will be better.  I like Wheaton a lot.  Their offense is insane. I could say the same about Wabash.  New QB, but they've got weapons.  I like NCC better than any of those teams right now.  There's just not a lot of room at the top for Heidi in my poll right now.  It can and probably will change as we move forward.

[ExTartanPlayer]

There's just not a lot of room at the top for Heidi in my poll right now.  It can and probably will change as we move forward.

True statement.  It's likely that teams #2-7 will be juggled throughout the season as each team has the inevitable peaks and valleys (even if they're all winning, someone will survive a close shave with a bottom-dweller while another blows out a decent team and we'll flip them in the poll...until the same thing happens in reverse).

[sigma one]

Maybe that's true for #2 through #10.

[TheBerg40]

I'll second smedindy's point.  This isn't a poll for homers.  As previously noted, Mount Union has reloaded before and certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

TheBerg, it's far more laughable to suggest that Heidelberg be ranked #1 than it is to suggest they be ranked #7.  Coach Hallett has done a MARVELOUS job building that program and deserves hosannas and accolades all around.  However, with that said...they were bounced in the FIRST round of the playoffs last season by a Wittenberg team that was summarily dismissed in the following round.  So why should one ranking them #7 in this year's preseason poll be "ashamed" of anything?  That's about where they would have been last year, and we have much more recent history in favor of North Central, Wheaton, Franklin, Wittenberg (you know, the team that bounced you guys last year), and Wabash (who beat Wittenberg) than we do Heidelberg.

I'm never a fan of bringing up the long past, but Heidelberg is not far removed from a string of 4-6 seasons (which followed a series of 0-10 seasons).  While those losing seasons are irrelevant now, it IS worth pointing out that plenty of teams have arisen from mediocrity to post a couple of very good seasons and then dropped back into mediocrity while Mount Union churns out titles and finalists year after year after year.  I think Heidelberg is a very promising team this year and would love to see them emerge as an OAC threat to Mount Union.  But we've been down this road before, and the fact is Mount still has yet to be dropped from that perch.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was a 2013 preseason poll, I didn't realize it was a 2012 postseason poll. It's too bad Heidelberg is being judged on how they did 7 seasons ago. 

Hay there's still room on the Heidelberg Express... Hop on board! It's going to be a fun year!

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'll second smedindy's point.  This isn't a poll for homers.  As previously noted, Mount Union has reloaded before and certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

TheBerg, it's far more laughable to suggest that Heidelberg be ranked #1 than it is to suggest they be ranked #7.  Coach Hallett has done a MARVELOUS job building that program and deserves hosannas and accolades all around.  However, with that said...they were bounced in the FIRST round of the playoffs last season by a Wittenberg team that was summarily dismissed in the following round.  So why should one ranking them #7 in this year's preseason poll be "ashamed" of anything?  That's about where they would have been last year, and we have much more recent history in favor of North Central, Wheaton, Franklin, Wittenberg (you know, the team that bounced you guys last year), and Wabash (who beat Wittenberg) than we do Heidelberg.

I'm never a fan of bringing up the long past, but Heidelberg is not far removed from a string of 4-6 seasons (which followed a series of 0-10 seasons).  While those losing seasons are irrelevant now, it IS worth pointing out that plenty of teams have arisen from mediocrity to post a couple of very good seasons and then dropped back into mediocrity while Mount Union churns out titles and finalists year after year after year.  I think Heidelberg is a very promising team this year and would love to see them emerge as an OAC threat to Mount Union.  But we've been down this road before, and the fact is Mount still has yet to be dropped from that perch.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was a 2013 preseason poll, I didn't realize it was a 2012 postseason poll. It's too bad Heidelberg is being judged on how they did 7 seasons ago. 

Hay there's still room on the Heidelberg Express... Hop on board! It's going to be a fun year!

Love your enthusiasm, but unlike the investment prospectuses (where "past results are no guarantee of future performance"), in sports past results ARE a very good starting point (barring COMPELLING evidence to the contrary).  Last year it would appear that we all hopped a bit TOO strongly on the Heidelberg Express.  (Before the playoff game, you chastised FCGrizzlies for his vote, saying Heidi would shut down the Witt offense and the game wouldn't even be close.  Most of us, alas, had the Student Princes ranked ABOVE Witt.)

I didn't vote in the preseason poll as I was in Maine and didn't feel I was yet prepared, but probably would have slated Heidelberg somewhere between 5th and 8th.  Very simple: they win, they rise; they lose, they fall.  But #1 at the moment: ludicrous.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Ypsi says it well.

Berg, you kinda missed my point. It's not that Heidi's awful 2003-2005 means anything to the players today - it's that many teams have arisen from mediocrity to post a few "good" seasons in the 8-9 win range. VERY FEW of those teams have gone one step further and become consistent playoff threats. Right now Heidelberg is no different than any one of a dozen teams from the past decade that enjoyed two straight "good" seasons (without a playoff victory to show for it, I'll point out). To play the card of "disrespect" for being ranked #7 in the region based on that is absurd. Frankly, being ranked at ALL is a compliment and a testament to how far the program has apparently come, but you sound kind of like the naive parent from a high school that made the playoffs for the first time in 20 years and thinks his son's team is now the favorite to win a state title.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Not a big Football Guy but I am just happy that OWU made the list. Hope they earn it on the field. While I highly respect the voters opinions and they are clearly well informed and have valid opinions. Pre season polls are that, opinions. Educated opinions? Yes. I think the poll is pretty spot on, but it doesn't mean a lot, because no games have been played.

Bottom line this is just conversation, by well informed people. Win it on the field and all this will mean nothing. Don,t sweat it.

[DPU3619]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was a 2013 preseason poll, I didn't realize it was a 2012 postseason poll. It's too bad Heidelberg is being judged on how they did 7 seasons ago. 

If this were true, they wouldn't have been in my poll.  There's no "you're good now but you weren't a while ago so I'm skeptical" about it.  I mean this in the nicest possible way, but y'all need to beat somebody.  Seriously.  Beat somebody good.  Heidi had their chance with Wittenberg and they got a 50 burger dropped on them. Witt scored 50 only one other time last year.  They haven't beat Mount.  They beat Bally Wally last year, which is nice, but that's not exactly the '85 Bears.  They also had a nice win over Muskingum 2 years ago, but the same analogy applies.  Earn it.  Schedule somebody good and beat them.  Quit playing Alma.  Win a playoff game.  Do something to merit that consideration other than YOU think they're better than we do.

[Dr. Acula]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was a 2013 preseason poll, I didn't realize it was a 2012 postseason poll. It's too bad Heidelberg is being judged on how they did 7 seasons ago. 

If this were true, they wouldn't have been in my poll.  There's no "you're good now but you weren't a while ago so I'm skeptical" about it.  I mean this in the nicest possible way, but y'all need to beat somebody.  Seriously.  Beat somebody good.  Heidi had their chance with Wittenberg and they got a 50 burger dropped on them. Witt scored 50 only one other time last year.  They haven't beat Mount.  They beat Bally Wally last year, which is nice, but that's not exactly the '85 Bears.  They also had a nice win over Muskingum 2 years ago, but the same analogy applies.  Earn it.  Schedule somebody good and beat them.  Quit playing Alma.  Win a playoff game.  Do something to merit that consideration other than YOU think they're better than we do.

I want Berg to be really good.  I honestly do because I'm an OAC homer and a lot of us take pride in a 2nd team making deep playoff runs.  Heck, people still bring up when JCU got thrown in the east and won it only to lost to Mount again in the semis.  Watching that Witt game pained me.  But I said it before and I'll say it again, Berg's offense is way ahead of their defense.  I think we (OAC fans) fall in love with the shiny offense and lose sight of something very important...at probably the two most crucial areas for playoff wins, QB and defense, they aren't there yet.

Look at the 3 games you mentioned (the games against the 3 best teams they played).  They got just a hair under 50% completion percentage and 6 INT (2 in each) from the QB position.  They gave up 5+ TD in each and 1,469 yards of offense with the lowest being the 474 from Witt.  And it's not one way or the other.  Florence torched them through the air.  BW ran for almost 300 yards on them.  Mount was predictably efficient both running and passing.

Berg was young last year.  Perhaps those kids are ready to take the next step this year.  But I don't blame the voters for not just rewarding them because they're another year older.  They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt yet.  Take care of business this year.  Win a playoff game or two and it'll come.

[wally_wabash]

A lot to respond to...let's get to it. 

Regarding Germany Woods, Heidelberg did alright last year without him. Cartel Brooks clearly is no slouch.

Brooks is awesome, no doubt.  I think my point was that Germany Woods could have transferred to literally any other school and it wouldn't have been germaine to the Heidelberg/Mount Union North region polling conversation.  Not only does Heidelberg not have Woods, but now he's running against them on the team that wears the crown.  It's a double whammy. 

Of course I would vote Heidelberg #1. Of all the North Region teams, they probably have the most experience and skill returning. But as we all know, talk is cheap. Heidelberg will have to prove it on the football field; thank goodness the start of the season is just around the corner. 

Oh and.... whoever picked them 7th should be ashamed of themselves.

Do they though?  Wabash has nearly everybody returning.  Ohio Wesleyan has a ton returning.  Wheaton has a ton returning.  Franklin has a ton returning.  And maybe most important to this particular discussion, Wittenberg has most of last year's team returning.  I don't know what the overly compelling reason is to rank Heidelberg higher than these other teams, let alone #1.  Which isn't to say that I would harumph at anybody who wanted to put Heidelberg #2.  A lot of great points have been made that these teams 2-6 or 7 are all pretty equal; right now, any order that somebody wants to put Heidelberg, Franklin, Wabash, Witt, OWU, Wheaton, North Central is justifiable.  It really is. 

[TheBerg40]

ALRIGHT! Alright, alright, alright! I GET IT!

Man, I can't wait for the season to start!

HeHe

[ExTartanPlayer]

For comparison purposes...Kickoff's ranking of North Region teams:

1) Mount Union (#1 overall)
2) North Central (#6)
3) Wittenberg (#10)
4) Heidelberg (#14)
5) Wheaton (#15)
6) Franklin (#19)
7) Elmhurst (#22)
8) Baldwin-Wallace (#23)
9) Wabash (#25)
10) Illinois Wesleyan (#28)

The Elmhurst ranking seems to be something forced upon the Kickoff crew by the pollsters, since the CCIW preview guy has them pegged to finish 5-5.  With only 10 starters returning, I kind of agree that seems a tad ambitious for them to be ranked.  Other than that, it seems that Kickoff rankings are pretty close to what's been churned out here in the fan poll.

Also worth noting is that, while Heidelberg is picked ahead of Baldwin-Wallace by the Top 25 voters, Kickoff actually predicts B-W to beat Heidelberg and finished 2nd in the OAC, likely leaving Heidelberg on the outside looking in come playoff time.  Not saying this will happen for sure, but interesting.  That'll be a game to see.

From there it's a big drop to the next North team (Adrian at #51, John Carroll at #53, Augustana at #55).  Ohio Wesleyan is ranked 70th, #14 among North teams, which might sound unduly low but I'm OK with it, that sounds about right until we see that OWU this year is just as good as OWU last year.

As we're alluding to in the Heidl conversation, I think recent history has to be considered in projections because there's relatively little information to go on, and OWU has only one good season to their credit.  Another 9-win season is certainly possible, but so is a bit of regression to the mean.  OWU finished 9-1, but they only beat three teams that finished the year with a winning record (and none of those - Case, CMU, Kenyon - is going to be confused with the '85 Bears).  OWU was 4-0 in one-score games last year and that some of those came against mediocre competition; they could be a very similar team this year and end up 6-4 or 7-3 (although I think they will be clearly favored against everyone but Wabash and Witt).  Winning 8 games seems likely; winning 9 will require a team not only "equal" to last year's team, but most likely, a BETTER team.

Oh, and anyone that hasn't bought Kickoff yet....GET IT.  It's a treasure trove of information about every team.