FB: Region 4 fan poll

[BashDad]

God bless all of you.

[USee]

Okay, so we're talking about bias. I'm gonna give a bit of what I go through when I pick a jury regarding bias.

Bias is okay. It just means that we prefer one thing over another. The example I use is pizza. I prefer sausage pizza. My wife hates Italian sausage. She's biased against sausage pizza.

Or let's talk trucks; this being Texas. I prefer Ford trucks. My brother, he's a Chevy truck man. He's biased against Ford trucks.

It's a preference. It doesn't mean anything about which pizza or truck is better. You're damn right I'm biased in favor of Wabash. Does my bias, intentional or otherwise, have an influence on where I vote them? Probably. I've had them at #4 the last 4 weeks. One could have them ranked as low as 8 and still not be "wrong". So why do I have them at #4? I could articulate lots of reasons. But could it be bias? Sure?


Look at it this way: Would any of you non-Wabash folks voting in this poll want me officiating a game between Wabash and your school? Bet you wouldn't.

I don't take offense to that bias issue. It just means I'm human. What matters most is that we admit that we have biases. Hiding them? Not cool. Be open about it. I'm a Wabash man and I voted them #4 the last 4 weeks. That is, as they say, what it is.

LG- Very well said. But I must say I am offended your wife hates pizza.

[Li'l Giant]

LG- Very well said. But I must say I am offended your wife hates pizza.

She likes pizza. It's sausage pizza she hates.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Okay, so we're talking about bias. I'm gonna give a bit of what I go through when I pick a jury regarding bias.

Bias is okay. It just means that we prefer one thing over another. The example I use is pizza. I prefer sausage pizza. My wife hates Italian sausage. She's biased against sausage pizza.

Or let's talk trucks; this being Texas. I prefer Ford trucks. My brother, he's a Chevy truck man. He's biased against Ford trucks.

It's a preference. It doesn't mean anything about which pizza or truck is better. You're damn right I'm biased in favor of Wabash. Does my bias, intentional or otherwise, have an influence on where I vote them? Probably. I've had them at #4 the last 4 weeks. One could have them ranked as low as 8 and still not be "wrong". So why do I have them at #4? I could articulate lots of reasons. But could it be bias? Sure?

Look at it this way: Would any of you non-Wabash folks voting in this poll want me officiating a game between Wabash and your school? Bet you wouldn't.

I don't take offense to that bias issue. It just means I'm human. What matters most is that we admit that we have biases. Hiding them? Not cool. Be open about it. I'm a Wabash man and I voted them #4 the last 4 weeks. That is, as they say, what it is.

Good (and valid) post.

And you may be like the Ypsi guy who reffed youth soccer games that we hated to get - he tried so hard to be fair that WE always got screwed!  (I finally put Wabash 4th this week, but had them THIRD the previous three weeks.)  So maybe I would want you reffing a Wabash/IWU game - you might be so 'neutral' that you would screw the LG's!

I taught sociology my whole career.  The fundamental point USee is making is totally valid.  I initially posted a rebuttal because he seemed to be making the point that people would over-rate their teams.  My experience is that, in poll voting (and, perhaps, reffing ) at least, people try so hard to be objective that they (fairly) consistently UNDER-rate their teams.

[Li'l Giant]

My experience is that, in poll voting (and, perhaps, reffing ) at least, people try so hard to be objective that they (fairly) consistently UNDER-rate their teams.

Which itself is a bias. You have to know the right answer to intentionally answer wrongly.

[Mr. Ypsi]

My experience is that, in poll voting (and, perhaps, reffing ) at least, people try so hard to be objective that they (fairly) consistently UNDER-rate their teams.

Which itself is a bias. You have to know the right answer to intentionally answer wrongly.

True.  But the opposite of the bias that prompted my initial rebuttal to USee.

[ExTartanPlayer]

God bless all of you.

+K

The answer is a duck.

[USee]

LG- Very well said. But I must say I am offended your wife hates pizza.

She likes pizza. It's sausage pizza she hates.

I know, but if I had said "I am offended you wife doesn't like sausage pizza", the depraved posters would have had a field day.

[Mr. Ypsi]

LG- Very well said. But I must say I am offended your wife hates pizza.

She likes pizza. It's sausage pizza she hates.

I know, but if I had said "I am offended you wife doesn't like sausage pizza", the depraved posters would have had a field day.

OOH, now you've stepped in it!

Who, exactly, are the 'depraved posters'?

[DPU3619]

I may go cross-eyed if this goes any further.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

http://vimeo.com/75727059

Check out the video from the FC Touchdown Club.  Well done.

[smedindy]

I may go cross-eyed if this goes any further.

And painless?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyDb4szpWmc

[smedindy]

Sorry, I was responding to the allegation that I (we) somehow vote our team higher in the polls purely because of who they are. I don't. I never have. Sorry. I just haven't. Believe me or don't - I haven't. I do see Wabash and the North teams more often, so I may have better knowledge of them. But I don't game my ratings based on that.

[smedindy]

In my as-unbiased-as-possible rankings I moved Heidelberg up and put IWU and Wheaton down at 8 and 9. But man, when they're at 8 and 9 then this region is damn, damn tough. All nine of those teams are well within my Top 20 ballot.

[wabndy]

For those scoring the regional rankings at home, here is an update of last week's snapshot of relevant teams:

Team, overall record, in-region record, losses, signifigant wins, SOS ranking, OWP (OWP rank, OOWP, NCAA aggregate). 

Albion  6-2  6-2  Losses to (Wheaton, Central), Win (Olivet) 95    5000 (104) .5424 0.514 
Hope 7-2 7-2  Losses to (IWU, Adrian), Wins (Olivet)  104  4762 (135) .5692 0.507 
Olivet 6-2  6-2 Losses to (Hope, Albion)  186     .3966 (207) .5400 0.444   
Wabash 8-0 8-0  145  .4643 (152) .5068 0.478 
Wittenberg  7-1  7-0 Loss to (Butler*)  102    .5102 (97) .5078 0.509 
Franklin 6-2 6-1  Losses to (Butler*, Mount Union),  157  .4898 (121) .4352 0.472 
IWU  7-1 7-1 Wins (Wheaton, Hope), Loss (North Central)  101  .4737 (137) .5815 0.510 
North Central 8-0 8-0 Win (IWU)  153  4151 (187) .5914 0.474 
Wheaton  7-1 7-1 Loss to (IWU), Wins (Albion)  65     .5455 (68) .5147 0.535
Concordia 6-2 6-2 Losses to (Augsburg, Trine), Wins (Benedictine)  209   4038 (203) .4604 0.423   
Benedictine 6-2 6-2 Losses to (Wheaton, Concordia), 175     .4286 (177) .5146 0.457
Heidelberg 7-1 7-1 Loss to (Mount Union)  219  .3091 (230) .5995 0.406 
John Carroll 8-0 8-0 Wins (St. Norbert)  172    .4182 (182) .5525 0.463   
Mount Union  8-0 8-0 Wins (Franklin, Heidelberg)  165    .4259 (179) .5535 0.468
Greenville 9-0 9-0  Win (Eureka)  224     3509 (225) .4858 0.396 

I've dropped the three loss teams from the list. 

My revised guesses for this week's North region rankings:

1. Mount Union  (wins against RRO Franklin, Heidelberg)
2. North Central  (quality win against RRO IWU, better SOS than John Carroll)
3. Wabash   (Wabash's SOS edges John Carroll, could easly see 3 and 4 flipped, Witt: will post more on NCAC page).
4.  John Carroll  (Witt has better SOS, but 1 non D3 loss)
5.  Wittenberg  (see my post on NCAC page)
6.  Greenville (Wally convinced me they belong higher, even with a lousy SOS.)
7.  Illinois Wesleyan (tempted to rank them lower than Franklin b/c of NCC game, but strong SOS keems them here)
8  Wheaton (loss to IWU, who lost to NCC pushed them low, but killer SOS keeps them here
9.  Franklin (played UMU closer than Heidelberg, better SOS than the princes, but 2 losses still hurts - will move up as the herd thins above)
10.  Heidelberg  (low SOS, but can still pick up good claim to move way up the list with a win this weekend)