FB: Region 4 fan poll

[wally_wabash]

Upset of the year in D3?  Bluffton 24, Franklin 17!!

Combined with Witt blitzing Wabash, gonna be an interesting poll this week!

I'd add to that JCU crushing Heidelberg. It wouldn't be indefensible to jump JCU ahead of even NCC would it? Their defense is just ridiculous this year. Several teams have an argument to be made for the #2 slot.

I do have an internal debate going on involving JCU.  But the other party is not North Central.   

[ExTartanPlayer]

Upset of the year in D3?  Bluffton 24, Franklin 17!!

Combined with Witt blitzing Wabash, gonna be an interesting poll this week!

I'd add to that JCU crushing Heidelberg. It wouldn't be indefensible to jump JCU ahead of even NCC would it? Their defense is just ridiculous this year. Several teams have an argument to be made for the #2 slot.

I do have an internal debate going on involving JCU.  But the other party is not North Central.   

I don't participate in the poll, but I'm having the same debate. Fortunately we'll find out the answer next week.

If we divorced all knowledge of events prior to this season and looked solely at results from 2013, John Carroll would be a slam dunk as one of the best teams in the country. I think "we" the D3 fan community have been justifiably cautious in embracing them because lots of teams get off to hot starts and are brought back to Earth when they play the best team or two in their conference. But to date I think an argument can be made that no one but UMHB and Linfield has been as dominant every single week as John Carroll.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I did drop UMU from #1 to #3 on my national ballot, when comparing Heidi's results vs. UMU to JCU.  UMU is still #1 on my North region ballot, but not by the margin they once were.  NCC remains #2 (they did, after all, just crush both IWU and Wheaton), but JCU has jumped to #3.  And while a JCU win next week would somewhat surprise me, it would certainly not shock me - I think they are the gravest regular season threat to UMU in many a season (despite Franklin almost pulling it off just weeks ago).

[smedindy]

North Central's run this season hasn't been too shabby, though. I think it's now 123 then a gap to 4 then 5678 in a clown car.

[hazzben]

North Central's run this season hasn't been too shabby, though. I think it's now 123 then a gap to 4 then 5678 in a clown car.

Ha! +k

[ADL70]

Sheesh, why that qualifier?  Just dump the distinction, which with all the ways to qualify as in-region, no longer has any real meaning.

We've discussed this before. The NCAA d3 sports world is bigger than football. It does make more sense in other sports.
There is something to be said for encouraging d3 schools not to overextend their budget trying to play all sports from one coast to the next. That, I gather, is the reason.

No, the reason is to avoid missed class time by giving coaches an incentive not to schedule games that are too distant from campus.

You're drinking the koolade.

A Michigan team playing in Alabama is "not too distant from campus"?

And this latest mutation makes Linfield's game in Cleveland "in region."

[Gregory Sager]

Sheesh, why that qualifier?  Just dump the distinction, which with all the ways to qualify as in-region, no longer has any real meaning.

We've discussed this before. The NCAA d3 sports world is bigger than football. It does make more sense in other sports.
There is something to be said for encouraging d3 schools not to overextend their budget trying to play all sports from one coast to the next. That, I gather, is the reason.

No, the reason is to avoid missed class time by giving coaches an incentive not to schedule games that are too distant from campus.

You're drinking the koolade.

A Michigan team playing in Alabama is "not too distant from campus"?

And this latest mutation makes Linfield's game in Cleveland "in region."

I am not "drinking the koolade". This is the reason that has been consistently stated by the D3 presidents and athletic directors who set the policies of the division for the NCAA. If you don't believe me, Google it for yourself.

The fact that the administrative regions now constitute part of the in-region formula, which leads to such occasional real-life silliness as Illinois and Wisconsin teams going to the West Coast and playing in-region contests, doesn't change that. Such occurrences are pretty rare in the larger scheme of D3 athletics. Given the way that scheduling works, most of the athletic contests between geographically distant schools that take place within the same administrative regions occur during semester break, anyway. (The classic example is basketball snowbird trips to southern California by midwestern schools located in Administrative Region 4.)

Also, Linfield and Case Western Reserve are not in the same administrative region. CWRU is in Administrative Region 3, while Linfield is in Administrative Region 4.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

I managed to snap out of my shock long enough to put my rankings together... same 10 as last week but all jumbled up. With so much jumbling I decided to do a bit of jumbling in my top 25 ballot too... top 3 in the North are all in the top 6 overall... the next six are fairly spread out over the top 25 as opposed to a couple weeks ago when they were all crammed together.

[ADL70]

Sheesh, why that qualifier?  Just dump the distinction, which with all the ways to qualify as in-region, no longer has any real meaning.

We've discussed this before. The NCAA d3 sports world is bigger than football. It does make more sense in other sports.
There is something to be said for encouraging d3 schools not to overextend their budget trying to play all sports from one coast to the next. That, I gather, is the reason.

No, the reason is to avoid missed class time by giving coaches an incentive not to schedule games that are too distant from campus.

You're drinking the koolade.

A Michigan team playing in Alabama is "not too distant from campus"?

And this latest mutation makes Linfield's game in Cleveland "in region."

I am not "drinking the koolade". This is the reason that has been consistently stated by the D3 presidents and athletic directors who set the policies of the division for the NCAA. If you don't believe me, Google it for yourself.

The fact that the administrative regions now constitute part of the in-region formula, which leads to such occasional real-life silliness as Illinois and Wisconsin teams going to the West Coast and playing in-region contests, doesn't change that. Such occurrences are pretty rare in the larger scheme of D3 athletics. Given the way that scheduling works, most of the athletic contests between geographically distant schools that take place within the same administrative regions occur during semester break, anyway. (The classic example is basketball snowbird trips to southern California by midwestern schools located in Administrative Region 4.)

Also, Linfield and Case Western Reserve are not in the same administrative region. CWRU is in Administrative Region 3, while Linfield is in Administrative Region 4.

I was responding to a post by Mr. Ypsi that for hoops at least if 75% of a team's game were traditional in region then all games are in region.  And on this site Linfield @ CWRU is shown as in region (even though not in same Admin region).

But apparently for regional ranking purposes, if I read the NCAA DIII Manual correctly, regional preference has been eliminated from the criteria for all sports effective 8/1/13, as I felt it should be.

31.3.3.2.1 Primary Criteria—Ranking and Selection (All Contests Leading up to NCAA Championships).
(a) Won-lost percentage against Division III opponents; (Adopted: 4/15/03, Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(b) Division III head-to-head competition; (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(c) Results versus common Division III opponents; (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(d) Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included; (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13, 1/16/13 effective 8/1/13)
(e) Division III strength of schedule (see Bylaw 31.3.3.2.3); and (Adopted: 1/13/10, Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(f) Should a committee find that evaluation of a team’s won-lost percentage during the last 25 percent of the season is applicable (i.e., end-of-season performance), it may adopt such criteria with approval from the Championships Committee. (Adopted: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
31.3.3.2.2 Secondary Criteria—Ranking and Selection.
(a) Non-Division III won-lost percentage; (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(b) Results versus common non-Division III opponents; and (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)
(c) Non-Division III strength of schedule. (Revised: 7/24/12 effective 8/1/13)

[Gregory Sager]

Chuck's figure is wrong; it's 70%, not 75%. And the regional emphasis has not been entirely discarded. As Chuck said, the percentage rule (although it's actually 70%) produces a minimum threshold of the number of in-region games that each team must play in order to qualify for postseason tournaments (and, thus, for the regional rankings as well). For football purposes, that's practically meaningless; I can't think of any D3 football team that isn't scheduling seven in-region football games a year.

As for Linfield and CWRU being listed as an in-region game on d3football.com, that's an error. Linfield and CWRU are not in the same administrative region, as I said earlier. The administrative regions are listed under 8.3 in the d3football.com playoff FAQ.

[ADL70]

Fewer than 7?  Look at CWRU (if Linfield, Puget Sound, and Trinity are errors) and Wesley.

Your NCAA link is a release that predates the amendment to the DIII Manual.

Perhaps Pat can clarify and correct the site if Linfield @ CWRU is an error.

[wally_wabash]

For SOS purposes, all in-division games count. If Pat has to mark every game as regional to make the math work out, so be it.

[USee]

JCU @UMU this week. This is a huge game and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see JCU beat the Raiders. JCU's defense is for real. I still think the North is overall down relative to years past and the West has the strongest teams. I actually think we may not see Mt Union or UWW in the Stagg this year. #newblood

[NCF]

JCU @UMU this week. This is a huge game and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see JCU beat the Raiders. JCU's defense is for real. I still think the North is overall down relative to years past and the West has the strongest teams. I actually think we may not see Mt Union or UWW in the Stagg this year. #newblood

Looking forward to making the trip to see this game-should be a great one!

[DPU3619]

Here's this week's North Region Fan Poll. We'll do one more next week and then a final one after the season.

1.  Mount Union           80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  John Carroll            68 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3)
3.  North Central          67 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4.  Wittenberg             57 pts (3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4)
5.  Illinois Wesleyan     39 pts (5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6)
T6. Franklin                 33 pts (5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9)
T6. Wabash                 33 pts (6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9)
8.  Heidelberg              25 pts (6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9)
9.  Wheaton                18 pts (7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10)
10. Hope                     12 pts (8, 8, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, -)

ARV
DePauw                         1 pt (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -) - JK. I voted for Hope, too.

The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by Mr. Ypsi, FCGrizzliesGrad, smedindy, wally_wabash, Li'l Giant, USee, NCF, and myself.