FB: Region 4 fan poll

[Mr. Ypsi]

Might as well get my ballot out of the way so everyone knows where all the odd votes came from

1. Mount Union             79 pts  (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2)
2. North Central            73 pts  (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2)   
3. Wittenberg                63 pts  (3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4. John Carroll               49 pts (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7)
5. Franklin                    42 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9)
6. Illinois Wesleyan        40 pts (4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8)
7. Wabash                     36 pts (5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8)
8. Wheaton                   27 pts (5, 5, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9)
9. Heidelberg                 23 pts (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9)
10. Albion                       7 pts  (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, -)

ARV Hope                       1 pts  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

Already had the discussion about Mount-NCC on the Top 25 board. I know a lot of people are all about H2H results but a one point win in no way says better team to me. And looking at all the other results from this season, NCC is more impressive to me than Mount was.

While I still kept UMU first, I can certainly understand your reasoning on #1 - a one-point win AT HOME in weird weather conditions is certainly NOT conclusive evidence of superiority.  But I'm curious about your subbing Hope in for Albion at #10.  Yes, Albion suffered nearly a triple monkey stomp (while Hope would probably not have lost as badly), but THAT h-to-h was a three-point win by Albion AT HOPE.  (Regardless, I really wanted to just submit nine - the gulf between #9 and #10 was huge this year.)

[smedindy]

Yeah, the Hope / Albion H2H rather much settled that one since that was at Albion.

[NCF]

Might as well get my ballot out of the way so everyone knows where all the odd votes came from

1. Mount Union             79 pts  (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2)
2. North Central            73 pts  (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2)   
3. Wittenberg                63 pts  (3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4. John Carroll               49 pts (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7)
5. Franklin                    42 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9)
6. Illinois Wesleyan        40 pts (4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8)
7. Wabash                     36 pts (5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8)
8. Wheaton                   27 pts (5, 5, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9)
9. Heidelberg                 23 pts (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9)
10. Albion                       7 pts  (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, -)

ARV Hope                       1 pts  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

Already had the discussion about Mount-NCC on the Top 25 board. I know a lot of people are all about H2H results but a one point win in no way says better team to me. And looking at all the other results from this season, NCC is more impressive to me than Mount was.

Have to disagree here. A senior laden NC could not stop Burke and company. Mounts young secondary stepped up in the final minute while NC's defense folded. Could we put an end to the weather being to bame? Both teams played in the same conditions. It's not like Bethel who had to play without their all-MIAC player of the year. Mount was clearly the better team that day.

[HScoach]

I have no idea what the weather did to the NCC offense, but I can say with 100% conviction  that the slippery field completely eliminated Burke's ability to run.    Look back at when he was effective.   Early in 1st and 3rd quarters.   Which is when the field was in best condition after shoveling.

Maybe NCC's offense is a lot better too on a clean field, but I have no doubt that Mount scores in the upper 50's or more in good weather.   Maybe the final is 59-58?   Don't know, but NCC didn't have the speed defensively to stop Mount.   I fully understand Mount wasn't good enough defensively to stop anyone either, so I agree with NCF that the snow shouldn't be THE reason.

Overall I thought NCC was a very good CCIW team.   Exactly what I expected from them.   Very similar to the Wheaton playoff teams of the past.    Very solid, well coached, playing smart/efficient ball.   Just missing a couple elite physical playmakers to push them over the top.

[emma17]

Might as well get my ballot out of the way so everyone knows where all the odd votes came from

1. Mount Union             79 pts  (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2)
2. North Central            73 pts  (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2)   
3. Wittenberg                63 pts  (3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4. John Carroll               49 pts (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7)
5. Franklin                    42 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9)
6. Illinois Wesleyan        40 pts (4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8)
7. Wabash                     36 pts (5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8)
8. Wheaton                   27 pts (5, 5, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9)
9. Heidelberg                 23 pts (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9)
10. Albion                       7 pts  (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, -)

ARV Hope                       1 pts  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

Already had the discussion about Mount-NCC on the Top 25 board. I know a lot of people are all about H2H results but a one point win in no way says better team to me. And looking at all the other results from this season, NCC is more impressive to me than Mount was.

Have to disagree here. A senior laden NC could not stop Burke and company. Mounts young secondary stepped up in the final minute while NC's defense folded. Could we put an end to the weather being to bame? Both teams played in the same conditions. It's not like Bethel who had to play without their all-MIAC player of the year. Mount was clearly the better team that day.

NCF
I don't understand your refusal to at least let people talk about the weather without you saying people are "blaming" the weather.
I don't blame the weather for NCC's loss, I blame missed assignments and coaching decisions.
That said, I happen to believe NCC was probably more impacted by the weather than Mt.
Despite HS Coach's post, Burke ran for a ton of yards as did Mitchell. Both of these runners rely on lateral quickness. IMO a defense is disadvantaged against that sort of runner in those conditions.
Now, if the game was played on a dry field it's entirely possible Mt puts up a lot of points and wins, but IMO those points would come from the passing game and not the running game. Mt benefitted from the yardage via the run in that game in those conditions.
I am not saying ncc wins in dry conditions, but I believe if they lose in dry conditions it's not because they can't contain the Mt running game.

[wally_wabash]

Here it is - the season ending North Region Fan Poll

1. Mount Union             79 pts  (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2)
2. North Central            73 pts  (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2)   
3. Wittenberg                63 pts  (3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4. John Carroll               49 pts (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7)
5. Franklin                    42 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 9)
6. Illinois Wesleyan        40 pts (4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8)
7. Wabash                     36 pts (5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8)
8. Wheaton                   27 pts (5, 5, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9)
9. Heidelberg                 23 pts (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9)
10. Albion                       7 pts  (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, -)

ARV Hope                       1 pts  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)


The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, NCF, wally_wabash, FCGrizzliesGrad, Li'l Giant, USee, and myself.

I don't think there's anything crazy in my final ballot.  Nothing too shocking here.  I did give some thought to moving Wabash ahead of IWU, but ultimately decided that it wouldn't be particularly fair to penalize IWU for making the playoffs which is essentially what I'd be doing. 

I can understand the arguments for voting MHB or even Linfield ahead of Mount Union in a national poll, but with due respect to GrizzGrad, I think it's overthinking things to move NCC ahead of UMU.  The teams played, UMU won.  Even peeling back the head to head layer, I'm not sure NCC did anything much more impressive than UMU did.  The Heidelberg/JCU double is as good (probably a skosh better) than the IWU/Wheaton double.  The rest of the conference games are a wash (neither league was particularly special beneath the top three).  Maybe winning at Bethel is a teeny better than the Wesley win in the regional finals, but only maybe.  Again, it's splitting hairs.  It all depends on how much weight you want to give to everything else that happened outside of the head to head. 

[DPU3619]

Hey we're back! Would love a pre-season ballot from y'all whenever you have time. I'll send private messages to everybody too.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Just sent off my ballot.

I don't know how the pre-season poll will shake out, but the regional pecking order should be greatly clarified before the calendar flips to October.  Key September games (teams that may or may not be in your top ten, but are surely on everyone's 'watch list'):

Sept 6: HSC @ Wabash (the Stag Bowl ), Franklin @ IWU, ONU @ WashU, Butler @ Witt, Ott @ SJF, and Thomas More @ Wesley.

Sept 13: Elmhurst @ Olivet, UWW @ Franklin, IWU @ Albion, Augie @ Hope.

Sept 20: NPU @ WashU, Heidi @ JCU, UW-Platt @ NCC, ONU @ Bald Wally.

Sept 27: ONU @ Heidi, NCC @ UWSP, Bald Wally @ JCU.

[DPU3619]

Here's the Pre-Season North Region Fan Poll:

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        70 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
T3. John Carroll         54 pts (2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
T3. Wabash               54 pts (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7)
5.  Wittenberg           41 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 8, 9, -)
6.  Wheaton              39 pts (5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8)
T7. Franklin               35 pts (4, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
T7. Heidelberg           35 pts (3, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
9.   Illinois Wesleyan  15 pts (7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, -, -)
10. Wooster                7 pts (8, 10, 10, 10, 10, -, -)

ARV:
Albion                         4 pts (9, 10, 10, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St. Joseph         4 pts  (7, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Olivet                          1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Adrian                         1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, Li'l Giant, USee, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, wally_wabash, and myself.

[wally_wabash]

Here's the Pre-Season North Region Fan Poll:

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        70 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
T3. John Carroll         54 pts (2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
T3. Wabash               54 pts (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7)
5.  Wittenberg           41 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 8, 9, -)
6.  Wheaton              39 pts (5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8)
T7. Franklin               35 pts (4, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
T7. Heidelberg           35 pts (3, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
9.   Illinois Wesleyan  15 pts (7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, -, -)
10. Wooster                7 pts (8, 10, 10, 10, 10, -, -)

ARV:
Albion                         4 pts (9, 10, 10, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St. Joseph         4 pts  (7, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Olivet                          1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Adrian                         1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, Li'l Giant, USee, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, wally_wabash, and myself.

Good stuff.  Really interesting spread on Wittenberg.

[Dr. Acula]

Yes, that's quite a spread.  I was surprised folks had Witt 3rd with all they lost unless it's under the "until we see a game played I'm basing it off last year" philosophy. 

[Li'l Giant]

Here's the Pre-Season North Region Fan Poll:

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        70 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
T3. John Carroll         54 pts (2, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6)
T3. Wabash               54 pts (3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7)
5.  Wittenberg           41 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 8, 9, -)
6.  Wheaton              39 pts (5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8)
T7. Franklin               35 pts (4, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
T7. Heidelberg           35 pts (3, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9)
9.   Illinois Wesleyan  15 pts (7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, -, -)
10. Wooster                7 pts (8, 10, 10, 10, 10, -, -)

ARV:
Albion                         4 pts (9, 10, 10, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St. Joseph         4 pts  (7, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Olivet                          1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Adrian                         1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, Li'l Giant, USee, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, wally_wabash, and myself.

The spread on Franklin stands out to me too. Same with Heidelberg.

[Dr. Acula]

It won't take long to figure out Berg.  They play JCU in their OAC opener with both teams coming off the week 2 bye.  Nothing like playoffs on the line in September!

[Li'l Giant]

At least it starts to clear things up. Last season seemed to have a lot of poll inertia because the big matchups were late in the season.

[smedindy]

Even with all that Witt lost, I can't see them as being worse than any MIAA team or any HCAC team not named Franklin. And we really won't know after week one, with it being Butler and all.