FB: Region 4 fan poll

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

I was the hold up. Sorry gang. Had them since Tuesday. Just not enough hours in the day. Here's the Week 3 NRFP.

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        71 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3)
3.  Wabash                62 pts (2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5)
4.  John Carroll          56 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 4 ,4, 5, 5)
5.  Wittenberg           47 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6)
6.  Heidelberg           36 pts (4, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7.  Wheaton              35 pts (5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
8.  Illinois Wesleyan   29 pts (6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8)
9.  Adrian                  12 pts (9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -)
10. Franklin                8 pts (9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -, -, -)

ARV
Ohio Northern              2 pts (10, 10, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St Joseph           1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Rose-Hulman                1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)


The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, USee, wally_wabash, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, NCF, Li'l Giant, and myself.

I see the gap between Wabash and Wittenberg shrank from 18 points to 15 points. Can't wait to hear the complaints about that
Three teams from the HCAC getting a vote? Has that ever happened?

[ExTartanPlayer]

I think the "three HCAC teams getting a vote" occurrence is mostly because it's early in the season and no one can really tell who's the best team in that league, so MSJ and RHIT grabbed a vote at the bottom of the poll. Sort of like the 10-spot being divided among a handful of MIAA teams for most of last season.

Three teams getting a vote is a sign of conference depth...IF they're appearing TOGETHER on some ballots. But if it's just a matter of deciding which HCAC team to stick at #10 and one voter prefers MSJ while another prefers RHIT, I don't think that's really a sign of newfound conference depth.

(I know you didn't say it was; you just pointed out the curiosity of three HCAC teams getting a vote)

[wally_wabash]

I was the hold up. Sorry gang. Had them since Tuesday. Just not enough hours in the day. Here's the Week 3 NRFP.

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        71 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3)
3.  Wabash                62 pts (2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5)
4.  John Carroll          56 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 4 ,4, 5, 5)
5.  Wittenberg           47 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6)
6.  Heidelberg           36 pts (4, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7.  Wheaton              35 pts (5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
8.  Illinois Wesleyan   29 pts (6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8)
9.  Adrian                  12 pts (9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -)
10. Franklin                8 pts (9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -, -, -)

ARV
Ohio Northern              2 pts (10, 10, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St Joseph           1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Rose-Hulman                1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)


The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, USee, wally_wabash, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, NCF, Li'l Giant, and myself.

I'll get my rankings down in this post this evening, but if I try to do it off the top of my head right now I'm sure I'll mix something up.  What I do know is that I put Franklin back at 10 this week because I didn't really know what else to do with that spot.  I considered ONU, but then WashU got clobbered this week and I'm not really sure how good that ONU result is now.  I considered leaving MSJ at 10, but after they lost I couldn't convince myself that they are really better than Franklin.  Gave a passing thought to RHIT, but I couldn't get over them giving up 68 points in a game.  That shouldn't happen.  Concordia would have been my next option but alas they lost also.  Sooo...Franklin is in on the legacy vote.  Among those just missing out are the teams noted above plus B-W, Wooster (although it'll be tough to put them in without a marquee win somewhere), and DePauw (who probably jumps all the way in to my 10 if they win in Springfield). 

I also actually bumped Witt up one (so I'm one of the points that Witt gained on Wabash this week, FCGG) even though Butler got smeared which takes some shine off of Witt's close game in week 1.  No, Witt's sliding up one spot had more to do with Wheaton being just kind of meh through two games.   Wheaton's results so far without Wheaton's name behind it would probably make them Baldwin-Wallace. 

Last week when I moved Wabash up to 2 I did so based on the quality of result and said something along the lines of beating H-SC was about as good a non-league result as anybody in the region can get.  North Central has an opportunity to bag their own big game this weekend and if they repeat the 2013 playoff result I'll put them back at 2. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

My ballot matched the final poll, except I had Wheaton 5th, and reversed 9 and 10.

[Li'l Giant]

I was the hold up. Sorry gang. Had them since Tuesday. Just not enough hours in the day. Here's the Week 3 NRFP.

1.  Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.  North Central        71 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3)
3.  Wabash                62 pts (2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5)
4.  John Carroll          56 pts (3, 3, 4, 4, 4 ,4, 5, 5)
5.  Wittenberg           47 pts (4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6)
6.  Heidelberg           36 pts (4, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7.  Wheaton              35 pts (5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
8.  Illinois Wesleyan   29 pts (6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8)
9.  Adrian                  12 pts (9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -)
10. Franklin                8 pts (9, 9, 9, 10, 10, -, -, -)

ARV
Ohio Northern              2 pts (10, 10, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Mount St Joseph           1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Rose-Hulman                1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)


The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by FCGrizzliesGrad, USee, wally_wabash, Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, NCF, Li'l Giant, and myself.

I've got the top 5 matched with the poll, then diverge on the bottom 5. I guess that makes sense.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Here's a question for discussion: why is Adrian the unanimous "MIAA team du jour" instead of Albion?

Adrian is 2-0 and Albion is 0-2, I get that, and perhaps for now it's as open-and-shut as that.  This is pure speculation...but Albion actually won the league last year (including a shutout of Adrian, at Adrian), has 15 starters back, and relative to their expectations, has played pretty well in its first two weeks.  Using a rather crude measure of how they stack up against a "pretty good CCIW team" - last year they lost to Wheaton 66-0; this year they lost to Illinois Wesleyan 35-28 and were generally "in the game" throughout.

Meanwhile, Adrian has beaten Defiance (3-7 last year) and Carthage (1-9 last year).  I know you can only beat the guys in front of you, and that they haven't exactly struggled in either game, so I'm not saying Adrian's ranking is totally unfounded.  I'm just surprised that the rankings are unanimous in their regard of Adrian as the "token MIAA team in the 9/10 spot" when Albion won the league last year and might be better.

[wally_wabash]

Here's a question for discussion: why is Adrian the unanimous "MIAA team du jour" instead of Albion?

For me, it's a couple of things.  First, it's 0-2 vs. 2-0...says the guy who placed a vote for Franklin this week.  But Franklin's 0-2 vs. IWU and UWW is a little different than 0-2 vs. UWSP and Wheaton (I have Wheaton at a very tentative 7th right now...if the wind were blowing a different direction when I submitted my ballot I may have swapped them with IWU).  And I'm also partial to teams with better defenses and I think Adrian has the superior defense.  Albion can certainly make me think twice with some really good results in their next two games. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Here's a question for discussion: why is Adrian the unanimous "MIAA team du jour" instead of Albion?

For me, it's a couple of things.  First, it's 0-2 vs. 2-0...says the guy who placed a vote for Franklin this week.  But Franklin's 0-2 vs. IWU and UWW is a little different than 0-2 vs. UWSP and Wheaton (I have Wheaton at a very tentative 7th right now...if the wind were blowing a different direction when I submitted my ballot I may have swapped them with IWU).  And I'm also partial to teams with better defenses and I think Adrian has the superior defense.  Albion can certainly make me think twice with some really good results in their next two games.

I respect the logic, no qualms from me. Just wanted to raise the discussion point.


FWIW, you got your wires crossed a little with Wheaton/IWU.

Albion is 0-2 with losses to UWSP and IWU
Franklin is 0-2 with losses to UWW and IWU

Neither has played Wheaton this year. I brought up Albion's blowout loss to Wheaton from last year as a contrast to their much-more-competitive loss vs IWU this year as an indication that Albion may be a better team than last season. We'll find out soon enough

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

It seems to me that the distribution to each conference remains fairly consistent year to year even as teams ebb and flow. Three from the CCIW and OAC, two from the NCAC, one from the HCAC and MIAA. Lurking and occasionally sneaking into the list might be an extra team from CCIW, OAC, or NCAC or an unbeaten NACC team.

As far as the Adrian/Albion thing... I agree the 2-0 vs 0-2 thing is probably a big factor, but it's tough to compare when the schedules are so vastly different. Even though they didn't get a single vote I wouldn't be surprised if Albion is sitting between 11-13 on most people's lists. I also wouldn't be surprised if the gap between the two closes by the time they play in a month.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It seems to me that the distribution to each conference remains fairly consistent year to year even as teams ebb and flow. Three from the CCIW and OAC, two from the NCAC, one from the HCAC and MIAA. Lurking and occasionally sneaking into the list might be an extra team from CCIW, OAC, or NCAC or an unbeaten NACC team.

As far as the Adrian/Albion thing... I agree the 2-0 vs 0-2 thing is probably a big factor, but it's tough to compare when the schedules are so vastly different. Even though they didn't get a single vote I wouldn't be surprised if Albion is sitting between 11-13 on most people's lists. I also wouldn't be surprised if the gap between the two closes by the time they play in a month.

Albion/Adrian is also impacted by Adrian being the (narrow) favorite in the MIAA pre-season poll (IIRC).  A four-way race among Adrian, Albion, Hope, and Olivet was predicted, I believe.  I still think that is likely, though I think Adrian is now the clear front-runner. 

[ExTartanPlayer]

Thanks for sharing your opinions.  FCGrizzlies, you're absolutely right that it's tough to weigh

"2-0 with blowout wins against two bad teams"
vs.
"0-2 with close losses to respectable-to-good teams"

and Mr. Ypsi, thanks, I did not check the MIAA preseason poll - so if Adrian was the preseason favorite (the MIAA race looked very tight entering this season), that's perfectly reasonable.  I thought Albion might have been the favorite as the defending champ with a goodly # of returning starters, but the league was tightly contested as usual (and, with three different champs in the last four years, defending champs cannot be considered comfortable favorites in the MIAA).

[USee]

My top 6 stayed the same (UMU, NCC, Bash, JCU, Wheaton, Witt)

IWU took over my 7 spot after MTSJ loss at home to Millsaps. MTSJ needed to win that game to retain their ranking for me. I still think they are about even with Franklin this year so neither of them are in my top 10. My 8 spot has still been Heidelberg. #9 went to Adrian for me as the bottom of the MIAA dominated the bottom of the CCIW. #10 is ONU for me for many of the same reasons Wally picked Franklin. Basically there are 3-4 teams that are grouped at 9-13 and they need to sort themselves out.

This is the time of the season when teams develop dramatcially. Playing time for first year starters really starts to become meaningful experience, injuries happen and offenses/defenses evolve. There are some great games this weekend. I am looking forward to sitting in front of my computer with multiple games on at the same time.

[wally_wabash]

Can I make Thomas More an honorary member of the North Region?  Does anybody want to be in and stay on this list? 

[DPU3619]

Week 4 NRFP.

1.   Mount Union         80 pts (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1)
2.   North Central        71 pts (2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3)
T3. John Carroll          60 pts (2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4)
T3. Wabash                60 pts (3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)
5.   Wittenberg           47 pts (4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6)
6.   Wheaton              42 pts (5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6)
7.   Adrian                  19 pts (7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, -)
8.   Heidelberg            17 pts (7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, -, -)
9.   Ohio Northern       15 pts (8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, -, -)
10. Franklin                14 pts (7, 7, 9, 9, 10, 10, -, -)

ARV
Illinois Wesleyan         11 pts (7, 8, 9, 10, 10, -, -, -)
Mount St Joseph           2 pts (9, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)
Rose-Hulman                1 pt  (10, -, -, -, -, -, -, -)

The North Region Fan Poll is voted on by Mr. Ypsi, smedindy, wally_wabash, USee, FCGrizzliesGead, NCF, Li'l Giant, and myself.

EDIT: I wish you all would have been awake at 2:27 when I posted this because it originally said "North Region Flan Poll." That's something entirely different.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

EDIT: I wish you all would have been awake at 2:27 when I posted this because it originally said "North Region Flan Poll." That's something entirely different.

I'd have to put at #1 the blancmange that nearly won Wimbledon