FB: Region 4 fan poll

[Dr. Acula]

I think what we're really asking is if they can run through the other 4 teams in the top half of the NRFP.  After that I just don't see much chance of a close game. 

[USee]

I don't care about the points. I care about 324 yds in a half. That's a lot of yards no matter who it is. And averaging it with the 14 yards in the first half makes it look ok for the game but it's still 324 yds in one half. It's not too big a data point or too small. I don't disqualify them from being good because they play in the MIAA. But the fact that the quality of play in that conference has been poor for a couple decades also doesn't mean I decide they are good because they almost beat a pre-season top 15 team. They may be a top 10 team and we will find out soon enough. I haven't made any judgements on Albion (or Wabash) but my antenna is definitely up.

It's also still 14 yards for a half.  For a team that has averaged over 500 yards per game each of the last two years and looks like they're plenty capable of doing it again.  Fourteen yards. This works both ways, right?

Actually no, it doesn't. It is extremely rare to see a team go 14/324 for 2 halves. Dominant defenses don't give up 300 yards in a half to anyone, except maybe to the National Champion in the Stagg but they do throttle good and bad offenses to numbers that appear ridiculous. Albion may win the national title this year and I'll come back and eat crow. Last year Wabash had a dominant defense. The most they gave up was around 200 in a half to St Thomas and TMC, both first halves and then the dominant defense locks in. Albion had about 180 yds each half last year against Wabash. I don't know yet if they do this year but the 2nd half of Albion isn't a great sign. But it could be a sign that their defensive philosophy is changing, it could be some simple fix that Albion found and exploited, or it could have just been some bad halftime oranges, so I'll wait and see.

That's a totally fair standard to hold them, and by association their opponents, to.  Because that's the threshold for what makes a good team.  Stagg Bowl or trash.  No in-betweens.   

Whatever fits your narrative and makes you feel better Wally. Good for you.

[wally_wabash]

I don't care about the points. I care about 324 yds in a half. That's a lot of yards no matter who it is. And averaging it with the 14 yards in the first half makes it look ok for the game but it's still 324 yds in one half. It's not too big a data point or too small. I don't disqualify them from being good because they play in the MIAA. But the fact that the quality of play in that conference has been poor for a couple decades also doesn't mean I decide they are good because they almost beat a pre-season top 15 team. They may be a top 10 team and we will find out soon enough. I haven't made any judgements on Albion (or Wabash) but my antenna is definitely up.

It's also still 14 yards for a half.  For a team that has averaged over 500 yards per game each of the last two years and looks like they're plenty capable of doing it again.  Fourteen yards. This works both ways, right?

Actually no, it doesn't. It is extremely rare to see a team go 14/324 for 2 halves. Dominant defenses don't give up 300 yards in a half to anyone, except maybe to the National Champion in the Stagg but they do throttle good and bad offenses to numbers that appear ridiculous. Albion may win the national title this year and I'll come back and eat crow. Last year Wabash had a dominant defense. The most they gave up was around 200 in a half to St Thomas and TMC, both first halves and then the dominant defense locks in. Albion had about 180 yds each half last year against Wabash. I don't know yet if they do this year but the 2nd half of Albion isn't a great sign. But it could be a sign that their defensive philosophy is changing, it could be some simple fix that Albion found and exploited, or it could have just been some bad halftime oranges, so I'll wait and see.

That's a totally fair standard to hold them, and by association their opponents, to.  Because that's the threshold for what makes a good team.  Stagg Bowl or trash.  No in-betweens.   

Whatever fits your narrative and makes you feel better Wally. Good for you.

Says the guy who selectively ignores half of an entire game.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[USee]

I don't care about the points. I care about 324 yds in a half. That's a lot of yards no matter who it is. And averaging it with the 14 yards in the first half makes it look ok for the game but it's still 324 yds in one half. It's not too big a data point or too small. I don't disqualify them from being good because they play in the MIAA. But the fact that the quality of play in that conference has been poor for a couple decades also doesn't mean I decide they are good because they almost beat a pre-season top 15 team. They may be a top 10 team and we will find out soon enough. I haven't made any judgements on Albion (or Wabash) but my antenna is definitely up.

It's also still 14 yards for a half.  For a team that has averaged over 500 yards per game each of the last two years and looks like they're plenty capable of doing it again.  Fourteen yards. This works both ways, right?

Actually no, it doesn't. It is extremely rare to see a team go 14/324 for 2 halves. Dominant defenses don't give up 300 yards in a half to anyone, except maybe to the National Champion in the Stagg but they do throttle good and bad offenses to numbers that appear ridiculous. Albion may win the national title this year and I'll come back and eat crow. Last year Wabash had a dominant defense. The most they gave up was around 200 in a half to St Thomas and TMC, both first halves and then the dominant defense locks in. Albion had about 180 yds each half last year against Wabash. I don't know yet if they do this year but the 2nd half of Albion isn't a great sign. But it could be a sign that their defensive philosophy is changing, it could be some simple fix that Albion found and exploited, or it could have just been some bad halftime oranges, so I'll wait and see.

That's a totally fair standard to hold them, and by association their opponents, to.  Because that's the threshold for what makes a good team.  Stagg Bowl or trash.  No in-betweens.   

Whatever fits your narrative and makes you feel better Wally. Good for you.

Says the guy who selectively ignores half of an entire game.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Right. That's what I did. Ignored the data.

[smedindy]

Take almost any team, even one on the upper tiers of D3, and make them play with two second stringers and a third stringer as three of their four regular DBs (and probably lower on the depth chart when they go nickle or dime), and see how they do against a pass-wacky team.

Go ahead...

[smedindy]

I think if we have the 'Gauntlet' conference, it's probably inevitable that Mt. Union will lose at least once thanks to injuries and fatigue.

Every team has 'breathers' on their schedule, where the team they play is quite below them in talent level and experience. So, subs get to play more, and less snaps for first team players mean less chance of injury for them - be it dings or catastrophic. Even in the best D-3 conferences, there are teams struggling to be competitive.

Playing the Gauntlet, even if Mt. Union is playing the #8 team, I don't think they'll have much of a breather. It's got to wear you out.

[Desertraider]

I think if we have the 'Gauntlet' conference, it's probably inevitable that Mt. Union will lose at least once thanks to injuries and fatigue.

Every team has 'breathers' on their schedule, where the team they play is quite below them in talent level and experience. So, subs get to play more, and less snaps for first team players mean less chance of injury for them - be it dings or catastrophic. Even in the best D-3 conferences, there are teams struggling to be competitive.

Playing the Gauntlet, even if Mt. Union is playing the #8 team, I don't think they'll have much of a breather. It's got to wear you out.

Playing devils advocate here but if the top 10 were a conference (this top 10) I see teams 6-10 as being "breather teams" against Mount. Sorry - but I have seen too many 2nd and 3rds playing in the second half against ONU and JCU recently. I don't see Witt or the others being markedly better than ONU or JC. Ok. Let the beating begin!

[02 Warhawk]

Take almost any team, even one on the upper tiers of D3, and make them play with two second stringers and a third stringer as three of their four regular DBs (and probably lower on the depth chart when they go nickle or dime), and see how they do against a pass-wacky team.

Go ahead...

In that case scenario, I predict Mount, UWW, Linfield or St. Thomas would win 55-10. Mainly because their front 6 or 7 will provide enough pressure.

[emma17]

That gauntlet idea is interesting as is Smed's take on attrition.
Mt certainly seems talented enough to win each game, but can they hold up to a season full of strong teams?  Who knows.
The other side to that is the benefits that come from playing many strong teams in the season. I'm not suggesting UWW has played a gauntlet regular season, but I do think they've played a strong regular season schedule and a near gauntlet post season prior to facing Mt in the Stagg. Is it possible Mt would be even more dominant if they played a stronger schedule?

[02 Warhawk]

That gauntlet idea is interesting as is Smed's take on attrition.
Mt certainly seems talented enough to win each game, but can they hold up to a season full of strong teams?  Who knows.
The other side to that is the benefits that come from playing many strong teams in the season. I'm not suggesting UWW has played a gauntlet regular season, but I do think they've played a strong regular season schedule and a near gauntlet post season prior to facing Mt in the Stagg. Is it possible Mt would be even more dominant if they played a stronger schedule?

I believe that. I believe that's what made UWW stronger than Mount more times than not over the past 10 years. They play in a much tougher conference, and have a tougher road through the playoffs.

(In fact I know this debate has been had before...many times)

[Dr. Acula]

^^^ Agreed.  It's always concerning to me when the OAC is down.  It's always better to get pushed in the regular season or earlier in the playoffs so you can learn what your weaknesses are (and hopefully fix them) before you run into a UWW.  By then it may be too late.  Unfortunately, I don't know that the OAC will be much of a test in 2016.

[HScoach]

The better Mount teams wouldn't have much trouble.   Most of the time the Mount JV team is the 2nd best team in the OAC and better than the typical playoff opponent before the regional finals.   The Mount depth is crazy and has been since the late 90's.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hurry up, Saturday.  So that we can get to Monday/Tuesday for a new poll and a whole new set of debates!

I find the debates more entertaining than most of the actual games!

(As to the 'Gauntlet' Conference, it might depend on the order of the schedule.  UMU might well find some of the lower teams 'breathers' (though not quite like a Wilma), but if they had several consecutive weeks against the top of the Top Ten, they might get beaten down enough for a loss.  And I remain convinced that NCC would've won in 2013 under reasonable weather conditions. )

[smedindy]

It would be intriguing if we had a European soccer type setup for each region, with advancement and relegation...and then a playoff for the top 2 of each region or so.

[wally_wabash]

NRFP #6 ONU falls at Utica 34-30.  Wild last minute of that game.  ONU led this game 30-13 in the 4th quarter.