FB: Region 4 fan poll

[Dr. Acula]

I'm the one who spanked his alma mater with a #6 vote for losing to JCU.  I stuck with my valuing who they've beaten and, quite frankly, Mount hasn't really had any overly impressive wins.  The OAC is not good.  Now, I think Mount is clearly much better than the 6th best team in the region, but they haven't proven that on the field this year and I'm a biased fan at the end of the day so I went with what we know.  I know Franklin beat what I think is a very good TMC squad.  I know Witt beat Wabash and DPU, both of whom are better than anyone Mount beat to date.  It is what it is.  Go win some playoff games and I'll change my tune.

I moved JCU all the way up to #2 because I think their loss is comparable to Wheaton's, but their win at Mount is much better than anything on Wheaton's resume.  Had to reward that.

The intriguing "what if" was what if DPU hadn't crapped the bed against OWU?  9-1 with wins over Wabash and Denison is pretty impressive for NRFP purposes.

[USee]

So much for the demise of the OAC.

[wally_wabash]

I think it's ok to acknowledge that the OAC has two excellent teams and 8 average-to-poor teams and conclude that the league isn't good.  Two teams don't define a league.  Mount Union and John Carroll can play for the title and you'll not see me concede that the OAC was really good in 2016.  It wasn't. 

[USee]

It's also ok to acknowledge most of us were wrong about JCU.  Unranked in the NFRP bynsome through mid season and still ranked 9th at 5-1.  And while the OAC has 2 very good teams it is completely subjective they have 8 bad teams.  OAC still ranks in the upper quartile of leagues IMO. So if that's bad, then many others are terrible.

[Dr. Acula]

I think most (including myself) rate the OAC against other conferences, but also against itself historically.  It's not good right now.  JCU is clearly very good.  Mount is very good albeit definitely down for them big time.  They benefitted from a very favorable draw in the east.  The other 8?  Woof.

[HScoach]

I think most (including myself) rate the OAC against other conferences, but also against itself historically.  It's not good right now.  JCU is clearly very good.  Mount is very good albeit definitely down for them big time.  They benefitted from a very favorable draw in the east.  The other 8?  Woof.

^  what he said

[USee]

I think most (including myself) rate the OAC against other conferences, but also against itself historically.  It's not good right now.  JCU is clearly very good.  Mount is very good albeit definitely down for them big time.  They benefitted from a very favorable draw in the east.  The other 8?  Woof.

In Kickoff OAC was 4th, mid season (in ATN) down to 8th. I would put them around 5-6 right now. You guys say "not good" relative to 20 years of OAC but it's still better than 20 other conferences. I would place the WIAC, MIAC, E8 and maybe the ASC and CCIW ahead of them. That's really it in my opinion. Down historically for sure, but still almost top 5.

[wally_wabash]

I think where the ranking of conference thing breaks down pretty rapidly is that most leagues have one or two good teams and then 6-8 layers of meh or worse.  How much should we care if the 6-4 team from the Centennial would beat the 6-4 team from the MWC?  Or if the 2-8 team from the NJAC would beat the 2-8 team from the IIAC?  It just doesn't matter.  I think there are maybe...three(?) leagues that count as good: WIAC, MIAC, E8.  And then the rest are basically all 1-2 team horse races with a lot of filler to pass the time before those 1-2 good teams play one another in the de facto championship game. 

So if we want to rank the OAC as the fifth or sixth "best" conference...I mean, fine, but it's still not a good league.  There just aren't many good leagues. 

[HScoach]

I don't think the OAC as a whole has been good for years, but I'm not sure how to rank the others beyond the WIAC and MIAC.   The CCIW has been historically better than the OAC too.  The E8 has been a very solid conference, but Alfred just won it as the first 10-0 champ in forever and they gave up 70 to the least talented Mount team since the late 80's.   So how good is the E8 this season?  Previously pretty good, but this year?   Not so much.

Really interested in seeing if JCU can repeat that effort against UWO or whether last week points to this being the 2nd season of UWW being good, but not explosive enough to be a legit title threat.   And if Mount can put up a 4 quarter fight against MHB.   I fear this will be reminiscent of the ugly 2013 Stagg when Mount had completely out classed by UWW. 

[Raiderplaybyplay]

I don't think the OAC as a whole has been good for years, but I'm not sure how to rank the others beyond the WIAC and MIAC.   The CCIW has been historically better than the OAC too.  The E8 has been a very solid conference, but Alfred just won it as the first 10-0 champ in forever and they gave up 70 to the least talented Mount team since the late 80's.   So how good is the E8 this season?  Previously pretty good, but this year?   Not so much.

Really interested in seeing if JCU can repeat that effort against UWO or whether last week points to this being the 2nd season of UWW being good, but not explosive enough to be a legit title threat.   And if Mount can put up a 4 quarter fight against MHB.   I fear this will be reminiscent of the ugly 2013 Stagg when Mount had completely out classed by UWW.

I would have agreed with that label 3 weeks ago,but after seeing how good JCU is and watching Mount respond well to adversity the last couple weeks, isn't it a little unfair to judge the 2016 raiders while they still have a chance to win it all?

I just don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they could win a close game against UMHB in belton and win the rematch against JCU in Salem.

[Dr. Acula]

I've hinted at what HScoach said.  Even previously saying this is 2013 minus Burke.  If they battle UMHB for 4 qtr I will tip my hat to this team and coaching staff.  That'd be one hell of an effort.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It's also ok to acknowledge most of us were wrong about JCU.  Unranked in the NFRP bynsome through mid season and still ranked 9th at 5-1.  And while the OAC has 2 very good teams it is completely subjective they have 8 bad teams.  OAC still ranks in the upper quartile of leagues IMO. So if that's bad, then many others are terrible.

I think it would be more accurate to say we were in wait-and-see mode about JCU, rather than 'wrong'.  After all, they lost by 19 to UWO (who turned out to be even better than most expected), and had serious trouble with BW and ONU.  Sure they clobbered the other teams, but ya don't get much credit for clobbering Wilma or Marietta!  Until they beat UMU, they certainly had nothing on their resume to match up with Franklin over TM, RHIT over Franklin, or Denison over Witt (just to name a few teams, some of whom I didn't even have above JCU at that time; I'm not sure that there was a single team who received any votes in the NRFP who didn't have at least one result better than anything JCU had prior to week 11).

Yes, the OAC is probably about at the bottom of the TOP quartile of conferences, but also yes, many of them are downright godawful.

[wally_wabash]

Agreed, Mr. Y.  I've been one of the slowest to come around on John Carroll, but I don't necessarily think I whiffed on evaluating them all year.  They started with a tough loss to a tough team, sure, but three months ago they were coming off an 8-2 non-playoff year and starting a freshman QB which comes with way more questions than answers.  What they've evolved into over the course of the season- from what I described to a team that has defeated Mount Union, Wesley, and Whitewater in the last month- is really one of the top storylines of the D3 season.  But none of us would have or should have seen that in September. 

I don't think the OAC as a whole has been good for years, but I'm not sure how to rank the others beyond the WIAC and MIAC.   The CCIW has been historically better than the OAC too.  The E8 has been a very solid conference, but Alfred just won it as the first 10-0 champ in forever and they gave up 70 to the least talented Mount team since the late 80's.   So how good is the E8 this season?  Previously pretty good, but this year?   Not so much.

Really interested in seeing if JCU can repeat that effort against UWO or whether last week points to this being the 2nd season of UWW being good, but not explosive enough to be a legit title threat.   And if Mount can put up a 4 quarter fight against MHB.   I fear this will be reminiscent of the ugly 2013 Stagg when Mount had completely out classed by UWW.

I would have agreed with that label 3 weeks ago,but after seeing how good JCU is and watching Mount respond well to adversity the last couple weeks, isn't it a little unfair to judge the 2016 raiders while they still have a chance to win it all?

I just don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they could win a close game against UMHB in belton and win the rematch against JCU in Salem.

I think both of the bolded statements can be true.  Mount Union can win the championship this year and be one of the lesser talented Mount Union teams of the last 20 or so years.  That's a testament to where the Mount Union baseline is more than anything else. 

[wally_wabash]

Alright gang, just a reminder that we'll do one more NRFP at the end of the season now that all of the North Region teams have completed their seasons.  No rush this week as your rankings may be influenced by Friday night's championship game. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Alright gang, just a reminder that we'll do one more NRFP at the end of the season now that all of the North Region teams have completed their seasons.  No rush this week as your rankings may be influenced by Friday night's championship game.

I meant to send you a ballot before you posted this, but now I'll go ahead and post my ballot.  IF UMHB wins by a double-monkey stomp, I may have to reconsider, but otherwise the h-t-h of JCU over UMU prevails.

1.  JCU
2.  UMU
3.  Wheaton
4.  NCC (aka, 3A, but Wheaton won the BIGGER game)
5.  Witt (and beating TM downgraded Franklin)
6.  IWU (MAYBE a homer pick, but can't think who'd I'd put ahead of them)
7.  Olivet (got stomped by Stagg-bowl bound JCU - the only team I might put above IWU)
8.  Franklin
9.  DePauw
10 Denison

11/12  RHIT/Wabash  Can we have a 'snow bowl'?