FB: Region 4 fan poll

[Gregory Sager]

Trine's 55-34 win at Adrian was too close for me... (The game was tie 27-27 going into the 4th) I dropped them to be more in line with everyone else. Hope beat Adrian 22-3. An elite team doesn't allow Adrian to put up 34 points and I'm worried what happens to Trine in the playoffs when they play a team with a much better defense than any they've seen so far this season.

Adrian is 29th in the country in total yardage a game offensively, they are very explosive. The circumstances from the Hope game are not indicative to the talent Adrian has on the offensive side of the ball.

The relevant question, since this is a page that compares teams across conferences, is whether Adrian would still be 29th in the country in total yardage if it was playing a schedule against CCIW teams or OAC teams.

Also, the rule of thumb for making comparisons is that if you're going to throw out the weakest example (which, in the case of Adrian's offense, is the Hope game), then you have to throw out the strongest example (the Rockford game) as well.

I'd love to see who paid to have VA-Lynchburg fly(?) to Wisconsin.  There has to be some D3 teams around instead of playing some joke school from NAIA (are they even NAIA?).

Virginia-Lynchburg has never been NAIA. VUL was a member of the USCAA for awhile, but it's currently unaffiliated.

Maybe University of Phoenix or Southern New Hampshire can fill out the UWO schedule next year

That's tremendously unfair. As smeds pointed out, VUL is an actual, functioning, campus-based not-for-profit institution of higher learning that's been around since 1886. It's not a diploma mill like those two schools you mentioned. Just because the VUL football program is barely hatched out of the egg and is still working towards both affiliation and proper scheduling doesn't make the school itself some sort of fly-by-night renegade that deserves your, or anybody else's, disparagement.

Merle,
Do you honestly think UWO wanted to/went out of their way to play Lynchburg?

UWO didn't play Lynchburg. It played Virginia-Lynchburg. Lynchburg College is a member of the ODAC and a charter member of D3. Virginia University of Lynchburg is a different institution in the same small southern Virginia city, and VUL is unaffiliated with any conference or national organization.

I'm sure the Mount Union JV team would have been available for a September game or any of the local high schools.  I don't have a problem with UWO playing my sister's all-girls college in September, but that game should count against their SOS.  Just as Wilmington or Muskingum hurt Mount or the majority of the ASC hurts UMHB.  That's my gripe.

There's no satisfactory rationale behind that gripe, though. The reason why D3 only considers games played against other D3 schools within its primary criteria for determining W-L and SOS -- and this applies to all D3 sports, not just football -- is because of the wide variance of competition outside the division, and the concomitant inability to determine (or control, through rules regarding scholarships, season lengths, practice rules, etc.) competitive level. This means that it doesn't count towards primary criteria when, say, UW-Oshkosh plays Virginia-Lynchburg -- but it also doesn't count when Franklin plays D1-FCS Butler. In other words, games played against fledgling, unaffiliated programs are treated the exact same way as games played against D1 schools. They're both discounted altogether from primary criteria ... which is as it should be.

[wally_wabash]

There's no satisfactory rationale behind that gripe, though. The reason why D3 only considers games played against other D3 schools within its primary criteria for determining W-L and SOS -- and this applies to all D3 sports, not just football -- is because of the wide variance of competition outside the division, and the concomitant inability to determine (or control, through rules regarding scholarships, season lengths, practice rules, etc.) competitive level. This means that it doesn't count towards primary criteria when, say, UW-Oshkosh plays Virginia-Lynchburg -- but it also doesn't count when Franklin plays D1-FCS Butler. In other words, games played against fledgling, unaffiliated programs are treated the exact same way as games played against D1 schools. They're both discounted altogether from primary criteria ... which is as it should be.

This is a good point.  The non-division games are excluded from the primary criteria.  They may be considered if/when secondary criteria come in to play.  This is certainly what kept Oshkosh out of the tournament in 2014.  There can be a penalty, win OR lose, for playing outside of the division.  It's one more reason why it's unfair to assume Oshkosh picked that game in lieu of an in-division opponent.  They know better than anybody that there's virtually no upside to playing non-division games. 

[merlecanlas]

Virginia-Lynchburg has never been NAIA. VUL was a member of the USCAA for awhile, but it's currently unaffiliated.

I know that I said I was done.  But Kent State-Tusc is a member of the USCAA, there are also two Bryant & Stranton "branches" as members.  C'mon man.  Ok, ok.  After a good laugh, back to North ....hahah...North Region football only

[Gregory Sager]

There's no satisfactory rationale behind that gripe, though. The reason why D3 only considers games played against other D3 schools within its primary criteria for determining W-L and SOS -- and this applies to all D3 sports, not just football -- is because of the wide variance of competition outside the division, and the concomitant inability to determine (or control, through rules regarding scholarships, season lengths, practice rules, etc.) competitive level. This means that it doesn't count towards primary criteria when, say, UW-Oshkosh plays Virginia-Lynchburg -- but it also doesn't count when Franklin plays D1-FCS Butler. In other words, games played against fledgling, unaffiliated programs are treated the exact same way as games played against D1 schools. They're both discounted altogether from primary criteria ... which is as it should be.

This is a good point.  The non-division games are excluded from the primary criteria.  They may be considered if/when secondary criteria come in to play.  This is certainly what kept Oshkosh out of the tournament in 2014.  There can be a penalty, win OR lose, for playing outside of the division.  It's one more reason why it's unfair to assume Oshkosh picked that game in lieu of an in-division opponent.  They know better than anybody that there's virtually no upside to playing non-division games.

There is some value to playing those games -- it sharpens the mettle of your two-deep if you're playing a D1, D2, or good NAIA program, or it gets your younger players on the field for some experience if you're playing a team further down on the college football totem pole (such as Virginia-Lynchburg), and it adds to the perceived value of the student-athlete experience if they're allowed to play their allotted number of contests. But, yeah, in terms of how the people who put the D3 playoffs field together perceive it, there's probably not going to be an upside to playing non-division games.

[Diezel1]

Would Adrian be 29th in total offense, against CCIW competition, probably not.  But, that doesn't mean their offense wouldn't be capable of making plays against tougher competition in those conferences. 

[HOPEful]

Trine's 55-34 win at Adrian was too close for me... (The game was tie 27-27 going into the 4th) I dropped them to be more in line with everyone else. Hope beat Adrian 22-3. An elite team doesn't allow Adrian to put up 34 points and I'm worried what happens to Trine in the playoffs when they play a team with a much better defense than any they've seen so far this season.

Adrian is 29th in the country in total yardage a game offensively, they are very explosive. The circumstances from the Hope game are not indicative to the talent Adrian has on the offensive side of the ball.

When comparing Trine, Mt. Union, and Wittenberg to CCIW teams, you're forced into make comparisons where head to head or mutual opponents don't exist. I wanted/want to believe that Trine should be in the same conversation as the upper tier teams in the North. In my opinion, an "upper tier" team steamrolls Adrian...


(edited by GS for formatting)

[wally_wabash]

Regional rankings day! 

In the spirit of regional rankings release day, I thought I'd drop the NRFP results at some unspecified time today and we can all just crush the refresh button on our browsers until it shows up.   

Kidding.  I think I've got one ballot outstanding and I'll post this week's poll as soon as that comes in. 

[Captain_Joe08]

Regional rankings day! 

In the spirit of regional rankings release day, I thought I'd drop the NRFP results at some unspecified time today and we can all just crush the refresh button on our browsers until it shows up.   

Kidding.  I think I've got one ballot outstanding and I'll post this week's poll as soon as that comes in.

It's not me this time!

[USee]

Trine's 55-34 win at Adrian was too close for me... (The game was tie 27-27 going into the 4th) I dropped them to be more in line with everyone else. Hope beat Adrian 22-3. An elite team doesn't allow Adrian to put up 34 points and I'm worried what happens to Trine in the playoffs when they play a team with a much better defense than any they've seen so far this season.

Adrian is 29th in the country in total yardage a game offensively, they are very explosive. The circumstances from the Hope game are not indicative to the talent Adrian has on the offensive side of the ball.

When comparing Trine, Mt. Union, and Wittenberg to CCIW teams, you're forced into make comparisons where head to head or mutual opponents don't exist. I wanted/want to believe that Trine should be in the same conversation as the upper tier teams in the North. In my opinion, an "upper tier" team steamrolls Adrian...

I agree an "upper tier" team crushes Adrian. The question is whether a mid tier or 8,9,10 team in the region crushes Adrian as well. We just don't know and that's the challenge. As a result, people tend to view previous playoff years as the benchmark by which to measure MIAA champions. All Trine can do is keep winning against their schedule, they will be in, and they will have an opportunity to show what they can do.

(edited by GS for formatting)

[HOPEful]

Trine's 55-34 win at Adrian was too close for me... (The game was tie 27-27 going into the 4th) I dropped them to be more in line with everyone else. Hope beat Adrian 22-3. An elite team doesn't allow Adrian to put up 34 points and I'm worried what happens to Trine in the playoffs when they play a team with a much better defense than any they've seen so far this season.

Adrian is 29th in the country in total yardage a game offensively, they are very explosive. The circumstances from the Hope game are not indicative to the talent Adrian has on the offensive side of the ball.

When comparing Trine, Mt. Union, and Wittenberg to CCIW teams, you're forced into make comparisons where head to head or mutual opponents don't exist. I wanted/want to believe that Trine should be in the same conversation as the upper tier teams in the North. In my opinion, an "upper tier" team steamrolls Adrian...

I agree an "upper tier" team crushes Adrian. The question is whether a mid tier or 8,9,10 team in the region crushes Adrian as well. We just don't know and that's the challenge. As a result, people tend to view previous playoff years as the benchmark by which to measure MIAA champions. All Trine can do is keep winning against their schedule, they will be in, and they will have an opportunity to show what they can do.

I agree completely. After Trine obliterated Hope, I was willing to begin considering them to be an "upper tier" team (I ranked them 3rd in the North last week, giving them the benefit of the doubt over the one loss teams).

I believe this Trine team is the best MIAA team we've had in some time. However, I lowered that lofty ranking this week after the win against Adrian.

(edited by GS for formatting)

[Diezel1]

I'm not disagreeing with you.  But what I am saying is all it takes is for the WR to get behind a defender once or twice and the RB to break a long run, which they are both capable of doing, and they can be in any game. Which is exactly what happened against Trine. Those two guys are two of the most dangerous in this region, hands down. 

[USee]

Those two guys are two of the most dangerous in this region, hands down.

I don't doubt "those two guys" are good, but to clarify, have you seen every other WR/QB in the region? Hands back up.....

[Diezel1]

I have seen a few, yes. 

[USee]

a few is quite different than "all". Tough to claim someone is "Most..." unless you have seen all the options. I haven't so I have no opinion.

[Diezel1]

I apologize if I made it sound like I thought they were THE most dangerous.