FB: Region 4 fan poll

[USee]

A loss is not the best result in the region in my opinion.

[Li'l Giant]

A loss is not the best result in the region in my opinion.

"See, losing is actually bad". Sorry, it just strikes me as funny to have to say that.

[HOPEful]

I know it's a bit of hyperbole, but let's say North Central were to travel east to Soldier Field and play the Chicago Bears. Let's say by some miracle, the Cardinals had the ball down 16-10 in the fourth quarter, with a very legitimate chance to win the game. Alas, they don't, and end up losing 23-10 because Khalil Mack rips the ball out of Broc Rutter's hands and takes it to the house with less than a minute left in the game.

This would be a loss. It would also be the greatest result in North Central, CCIW, and D3 history.

Clearly, a loss CAN be the best result in the region. Obviously Mount is not an NFL team. But we seem to agree, there is a chasm between them and the rest of the teams in the north, and perhaps even the country outside of MHB. A close loss is significant when it's against Goliath of Alliance. Outside of Mount Union's win in the same game, it is the best result in the region this season, IMO. Again IMO, the only other result that comes even close is Wheaton's 52-30 win in Naperville.

[smedindy]

Using polls as a distance between two teams is quite imperfect. It's an ordinal rank - someone has to be 13th, 14th, 15th, etc. That's even if 13th is almost as good as 12th and much better than 14th. Teams don't line up in a neat order in real life even if polls make them so.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Using polls as a distance between two teams is quite imperfect. It's an ordinal rank - someone has to be 13th, 14th, 15th, etc. That's even if 13th is almost as good as 12th and much better than 14th. Teams don't line up in a neat order in real life even if polls make them so.

And then you can have quirks like in the Top 25 poll where earlier this year there was a "case" where the highest any of our 9 voters placed CWRU was 18th on their ballot yet they ended up 17th in the poll.

[Li'l Giant]

I know it's a bit of hyperbole, but let's say North Central were to travel east to Soldier Field and play the Chicago Bears. Let's say by some miracle, the Cardinals had the ball down 16-10 in the fourth quarter, with a very legitimate chance to win the game. Alas, they don't, and end up losing 23-10 because Khalil Mack rips the ball out of Broc Rutter's hands and takes it to the house with less than a minute left in the game.

This would be a loss. It would also be the greatest result in North Central, CCIW, and D3 history.

Clearly, a loss CAN be the best result in the region. Obviously Mount is not an NFL team. But we seem to agree, there is a chasm between them and the rest of the teams in the north, and perhaps even the country outside of MHB. A close loss is significant when it's against Goliath of Alliance. Outside of Mount Union's win in the same game, it is the best result in the region this season, IMO. Again IMO, the only other result that comes even close is Wheaton's 52-30 win in Naperville.

I can understand this but there's also a limit, too. I've used this analogy before but if a team loses close games to each of the Top 5 teams in the D3FB Top 25 does that make them the #6 team even though they've not won a game? A close loss to a top ranked team is good information for differentiating between teams with equal number (but not necessarily quality) of losses but at some point an L is still an L.

[Ryan Stoppable]

I know it's a bit of hyperbole, but let's say North Central were to travel east to Soldier Field and play the Chicago Bears. Let's say by some miracle, the Cardinals had the ball down 16-10 in the fourth quarter, with a very legitimate chance to win the game. Alas, they don't, and end up losing 23-10 because Khalil Mack rips the ball out of Broc Rutter's hands and takes it to the house with less than a minute left in the game.

This would be a loss. It would also be the greatest result in North Central, CCIW, and D3 history.

Clearly, a loss CAN be the best result in the region. Obviously Mount is not an NFL team. But we seem to agree, there is a chasm between them and the rest of the teams in the north, and perhaps even the country outside of MHB. A close loss is significant when it's against Goliath of Alliance. Outside of Mount Union's win in the same game, it is the best result in the region this season, IMO. Again IMO, the only other result that comes even close is Wheaton's 52-30 win in Naperville.

I can understand this but there's also a limit, too. I've used this analogy before but if a team loses close games to each of the Top 5 teams in the D3FB Top 25 does that make them the #6 team even though they've not won a game? A close loss to a top ranked team is good information for differentiating between teams with equal number (but not necessarily quality) of losses but at some point an L is still an L.

Such a team wouldn't be ranked #6, but they could well actually be the 6th best team if none of the Top 5 had lost (or only to each other). I would be more confident about the strength of such a team than a team who builds up a gaudy record against weak opponents.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

I know it's a bit of hyperbole, but let's say North Central were to travel east to Soldier Field and play the Chicago Bears. Let's say by some miracle, the Cardinals had the ball down 16-10 in the fourth quarter, with a very legitimate chance to win the game. Alas, they don't, and end up losing 23-10 because Khalil Mack rips the ball out of Broc Rutter's hands and takes it to the house with less than a minute left in the game.

This would be a loss. It would also be the greatest result in North Central, CCIW, and D3 history.

Clearly, a loss CAN be the best result in the region. Obviously Mount is not an NFL team. But we seem to agree, there is a chasm between them and the rest of the teams in the north, and perhaps even the country outside of MHB. A close loss is significant when it's against Goliath of Alliance. Outside of Mount Union's win in the same game, it is the best result in the region this season, IMO. Again IMO, the only other result that comes even close is Wheaton's 52-30 win in Naperville.

I can understand this but there's also a limit, too. I've used this analogy before but if a team loses close games to each of the Top 5 teams in the D3FB Top 25 does that make them the #6 team even though they've not won a game? A close loss to a top ranked team is good information for differentiating between teams with equal number (but not necessarily quality) of losses but at some point an L is still an L.

Maybe wouldn't end up #6 but I certainly would ranked them somewhere even though they're 0-5.

[emma17]

I would also disagree JCU's result against Mt Union is the best result in the region... It's a loss. I think wins are better than losses...

What is then? I would say maybe Wheaton's 52-30 win at North Central. But their losses at IWU and at WashU diminish that result quite a bit. And as you've admitted, there's a chasm between Mount and North Central.

In my opinion, JCU's result at Mount IS the best result so far this season in the region when paired with their record. Of course, other than Mount's win against JCU.

This really is a great conversation as it allows for interesting opinion.
My two cents is the Best Single Game result in the North was Wheaton's dismantling of NCC. I don't recall exactly, but wasn't NCC ranked top 6 at the time? I'm only looking at one single game.
Wheaton's tendency to be ridiculously inconsistent is the reason JCU's loss seems like the best result.
If I were looking at it from the perspective of which team from the North has the best shot at beating Mt, I'd consider JCU, NCC and Wheaton. Of those three, I think Wheaton gets my pick based on the "any given day" theory. More than the other two, Wheaton is capable of rising to the top for one game. Of course they'd go on to lose the next game after beating Mt.

[USee]

FWIW, Carthage played #4 UWO in week 1, was driving  (at the UWO 35) with under a minute in a single digit game, and gave up a pick 6 to lose by double digits. The next week UWO was still #4 and Carthage received exactly zero votes in the top 25.

Emma, NCC was ranked #5 at the time of the Wheaton @NCC game.

[smedindy]

Well, Carthage is Carthage and Oshkosh is Oshkosh. No one gets too hasty or over-reactive in Week 1, hopefully.

Oshkosh played to win the game. They won. Mt. Union wins the close games up to the Stagg Bowl, and everyone gets sore about it, but they win.

I had issues with Oshkosh and had them the third best (I think 4th best once when I ranked LAX ahead of them) in the WAC, but they showed themselves against Platteville who had a good loss at TMC and close calls against not-so-good teams. But I based my Oshkosh votes on a few results, not one game in week 1.

[HScoach]

^ I'd be shocked if Marietta is within 20 points of JCU.  I'm happy to see Marietta off the mat, but I'm expecting them to end season 1-3.  Still, a great season for Marietta to build from, but they're not ready for prime time yet.

Color me shocked thru the first half.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Comparatively tame week in the North.  I really wrestled with what to do with the JCU nail-biter (at home!) over previously undefeated, but untested, Marietta - I finally decided to leave them both exactly where they started (#2 and #9).  My only changes from last week were moving Witt from 6 to 5 (their early win over Westminster suddenly looks quite impressive after they beat #11 W&J), replacing WashU, whose close loss to IWU cost them only 5 to 6.  Plus, having tipped-my-hat to Kalamazoo on their best season in 25 years (and, arguably, their best ever in the entire history of the program!), I decided to rejoin reality - my #10 this week is Denison.  (But I really think they have a shot at beating Olivet, and maybe even Hope, so reserve the right to re-instate them in the future! )

[Mr. Ypsi]

Key games for voters to note this Saturday (aside from possible total upsets or unexpected nail-biters):

  (6-1) Wabash @ (7-0) Witt
  (6-1) Bald Wally @ (6-1) 'etta
  (5-2) Albion @ (7-0) Trine
  (7-0) Kazoo @ (4-3) Olivet
  (6-1) IWU @ (6-1) Millikin

[Dr. Acula]

Biggest debates for me this week were whether to flip flop JCU and IWU at 2/3 and, as always, what to do with the last couple spots on my ballot.  I did not watch any of the IWU/Wash U game, but on paper it looked like a very even game.  I only dropped Wash U one spot this week for the loss.  I ultimately decided to leave JCU at 2.  Both teams won and short of a statement type win from IWU I decided to leave it as is. 

I gave BW the boot from my ballot thanks to their 35-33 win at Wilmington.  Wilm is definitely improving under their new HC, but they haven't improved that much.  A good team needs to dispatch them pretty easily instead of avoiding a late 4th qtr tie thanks to a missed PAT.