FB: Region 4 fan poll

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Still waiting on 2 ballots... the usual suspect and one other. I'll send out reminders to see if we can actually get this up on a Tuesday.

[CollegeGolf18]

Still waiting on 2 ballots... the usual suspect and one other. I'll send out reminders to see if we can actually get this up on a Tuesday.

@ me next time

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Week 9

https://imgur.com/a/HNNwqyJ

The NRFP is voted on by: Captain_Joe08, CollegeGolf18, Dr. Acula, FCGrizzliesGrad, HOPEful, Li'l Giant, NCF,  smedindy, thunderdog, and wally wabash.

[Sir Battlescars]

I'm sure the Regional Rankings will make more sense than this does.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

https://d3football.com/playoffs/2019/first-regional-ranking

[HOPEful]

I'm column 2. My rankings did not change from last week.

[Sir Battlescars]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

[USee]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

First, it doesn't matter because Hope is a Pool A team and BW/JCU are Pool C. 2nd, the criteria dictate these rankings, not anyones opinions about which league is better. The criteria clearly favors Hope in this spot.

[wally_wabash]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

John Carroll doesn't have a win against a team with a winning record.  Baldwin Wallace does, so good on them.  They also have an inferior SOS and do not have a win against a ranked team, which Hope does. 

I think we're way past the time where OAC #2 gets waved through the door and into the NCAA tournament.  It's time for those teams to earn it, and this year they really haven't.  The winner of JCU/BW will have a shot, but right now the OAC runner up is looking at a last in/first out scenario. 

[Dr. Acula]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

John Carroll doesn't have a win against a team with a winning record.  Baldwin Wallace does, so good on them.  They also have an inferior SOS and do not have a win against a ranked team, which Hope does. 

I think we're way past the time where OAC #2 gets waved through the door and into the NCAA tournament.  It's time for those teams to earn it, and this year they really haven't.  The winner of JCU/BW will have a shot, but right now the OAC runner up is looking at a last in/first out scenario.

How do they earn it?

[wally_wabash]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

John Carroll doesn't have a win against a team with a winning record.  Baldwin Wallace does, so good on them.  They also have an inferior SOS and do not have a win against a ranked team, which Hope does. 

I think we're way past the time where OAC #2 gets waved through the door and into the NCAA tournament.  It's time for those teams to earn it, and this year they really haven't.  The winner of JCU/BW will have a shot, but right now the OAC runner up is looking at a last in/first out scenario.

How do they earn it?

I'm not sure they can given the quality of the league below Mount Union.  The quality opponents just aren't there throughout the OAC right now. 

[HScoach]

Can someone please explain to me how the committee can logically rank 7-1 Hope ahead of two 7-1 OAC teams? Hope is having a nice season, but come on! Everyone knows the MIAA is nowhere near the level of the OAC, just look at the scores of the 3 games played between the two conferences this year. Also throw in the fact that Hope's loss is to mediocre Millikan while JCU's and BW's loss is to Mount Union.

John Carroll doesn't have a win against a team with a winning record.  Baldwin Wallace does, so good on them.  They also have an inferior SOS and do not have a win against a ranked team, which Hope does. 

I think we're way past the time where OAC #2 gets waved through the door and into the NCAA tournament.  It's time for those teams to earn it, and this year they really haven't.  The winner of JCU/BW will have a shot, but right now the OAC runner up is looking at a last in/first out scenario.

How do they earn it?

I'm not sure they can given the quality of the league below Mount Union.  The quality opponents just aren't there throughout the OAC right now.

I agree.  I also think a bigger problem has been the recent performance of the 2nd place OAC team in the playoffs.   There was a time when it was typical that the 2nd place team would advance until facing Mount again.  That hasn't been the case lately.  Which hurts their reputation and future chances.  With so little crossover games between leagues and regions, history plays a bigger role in D3 football selections than it does in other sports.

[HScoach]

As support for my position that the OAC has fallen off, I offer the following that I put together a while back:


OAC losses to Mount in the playoffs:
1997 –  John Carroll lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)
1999 - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 2 (1 win)
2000  - Ohio Northern lost to Mount in Round 1 (0 wins)
2002  -  John Carroll  lost to Mount in the SEMI-FINALS (3 wins)
2005 - Capital lost to Mount in the Round 3 (2 wins)
2006 - Capital lost to Mount in Round 3 (2 wins)


OAC losses against someone else:
2003 - Baldwin Wallace to Wheaton in 2nd round (1 win)
2007 - Capital at Whitewater in Round 1 (UWW was Nat Champs) (0 wins)
2008 - Otterbein to Franklin in Round 1 (Franklin beat NCC in 2nd round, lost to Wheaton in regional final) (0 wins)
2012 - Heidelberg to Wittenberg in Round 1 (horrible loss for the OAC as H'berg had a big lead) (0 wins)
2013 - John Carroll to SFJ in Round 1 (0 wins)
2018 - John Carroll to Randolph Macon in Round 1 (worst of the OAC losses, expected JCU to roll back to Mount in Round 3) (0 wins)

Mount playoff losses as OAC runner-up:
2016 – MHB in the semi-finals (MHB national champs) (3 wins)


Overall, the 2nd place OAC team (including Mount) is a respectable 13-13.  The non-Mount OAC teams are 10-12 in the playoffs.  Which I would assume historically compares well to Pool C's from other conference.  Remove the OAC playoff losses to Mount and they're a very solid 10-6.

However I will acknowledge the most telling sign from the data above is that the OAC has really fallen off in the last decade.  Prior to 2007 it was expected that the 2nd place OAC team would win out until reaching Mount again.  Since 2007, the norm has been for the 2nd place OAC team to piss down their leg in the playoffs.  Ala JCU in 2018 year.  I believe this is the case from watching the conference too.  The days of ONU, BW and JCU all being competitive are gone.   

The OAC has never been as competitive top to bottom as the WIAC or CCIW, but unfortunately it appears the conference has been trending in the wrong direction over the last decade when it comes to the top teams right behind Mount. 

There was also a time back in the late 1990's thru mid-2000's where the top of the OAC provided as stiff a test from ONU, B-W and/or JCU as they would face all season on their way to a championship.   That hasn't been the case in quite a long time.  There has been a random team step up every once in a while to push Mount, but nothing consistent nor most importantly expected.  Recently it has felt more like a surprise that an OAC team hung with Mount for 60 minutes instead of expecting it like you did with the ONU teams of the late 1990's or Capital in mid-2000's.   And it isn't because Mount is more dominant now, it's because the 2nd & 3rd OAC teams have fallen off. 

[Sir Battlescars]

I find HScoach's negativity rather offensive.

[HScoach]

^  that's pretty funny.  Nicely done.