NESCAC

[mom1234]

Vassar also seems to continue to rise, and the coach had indicated there was more flexibility on test scores as long as the gpa and rigor were there.

Good to know! Vassar is pretty accessible for us with flights and proximity to extended family. Anyone have opinions on Liberty League as a whole compared to NESCAC and Centennial?

[mom1234]

For what it's worth, Brandeis is test optional as well.

Did anyone know kid in UAA to complain about the travel? The distances they travel are pretty significant, and I wonder how that impacts the overall college experience. F&M definitely touts the fact travel in Centennial is minimal... In their recruiting shpiel, they even talked down NESCAC for involving an exhausting amount of travel. Then again, if UAA flies everywhere, that's probably easier than schlepping around the northeast in a van...?

[midwest]

On the Liberty League -- St Lawrence is a long time powerhouse, Vassar has been improving every year and competing now for Conference championship, and Skidmore is not far behind. Bard is about the only truly weak team in the conference. 

While we all have our "favorite" conference, having accompanied my kid on recruiting trips to NESCAC, Centennial, Liberty and North Coast Athletic Conference (Kenyon, Ohio Wesleyan, Depauw, Wabash etc) schools, my sense was that each of those 4 conferences are deep, with a number of schools competing for championship. Those are conferences which tend to see additional "at large" bids for a spot in the national tournament. There is a complicated algorithm involved in the selection of at large bids, which I don't pretend to understand, but the number of at large bids to the tournament can be an informal proxy for how strong a conference (and the individual team) is. Some other conferences may have a single dominant team, such as Calvin in its conference, so that other teams face an uphill climb to unseat them. My kid never looked at UAA, but of course, it has sent a number of teams deep into the national tournament, so obviously a power house as well.

[blooter442]

Did anyone know kid in UAA to complain about the travel? The distances they travel are pretty significant, and I wonder how that impacts the overall college experience. F&M definitely touts the fact travel in Centennial is minimal... In their recruiting shpiel, they even talked down NESCAC for involving an exhausting amount of travel. Then again, if UAA flies everywhere, that's probably easier than schlepping around the northeast in a van...?

If anything (from what I understand) it enhances the experience that the players have on the team. The coaches certainly seem to think of it as a boon when recruiting. Coven touted the benefit of UAA matches a number of times, including I believe in his Final Four interview from 2016.

Usually each UAA team ends up having two "UAA travel weekends" per season (in October or the first weekend of November), and the other two weekends of UAA matches are at home, so it's not as if you're jetting around the country and having to miss class every week. Moreover, the men's and women's teams travel together, so it seems to be a fun large group experience. I can't speak for the other UAA schools, but -- with the exception of the season-opening doubleheader weekend -- most of Brandeis' non-conference games are in Massachusetts and involve maximum an hour's road trip, although trips for those out-of-conference matches might be a bit further for UAA schools in the Midwest.

NESCAC travel is interesting. While the schools are not as geographically spread out as the UAA, they are certainly not concentrated in a small area. Middlebury is pretty far north in Vermont, probably 2 hours from the next-closest one, Williams. Williams and Hamilton are similarly "out there," although I suppose Williams is closer to Amherst than Hamilton is. Tufts is close to Boston, but wouldn't be considered "close" to any other NESCAC (Amherst at 1 1/2 hours away is probably the closest). Probably the closest pairs of schools are Bates-Bowdoin and Wesleyan-Trinity.

While I believe the NESCAC season runs longer than the UAA season -- NESCAC matches start in early September and run through the conference tournament in November, while UAA matches are concentrated within a five-week stretch -- I don't think the NESCAC travel schedule is as debilitating as maybe F&M wants you to think. Would be curious to hear what NESCAC players have to say about that. However, in the vast majority of cases you've got at least an hour-and-a-half (if not more) of driving for road matches (and can be significantly more in the case of, say, Bates to Hamilton).

With 11 NESCAC schools, you're probably going to end up traveling for 5 of the 10 matches, so it really comes down to the luck of the draw as far as scheduling (e.g. Tufts, for example, taking a weekend expedition to Maine to play Bowdoin and Colby where they stay overnight in a hotel may be less "inconvenient" than schlepping down to play Wesleyan on a Wednesday afternoon). Of course, this is completely hypothetical, but just trying to express how the length of the drive is only one of the factors as far as the toll travel takes.

[Ejay]

I'm finding this thread fascinating. I recognize mom originally asked the question specific to NESCAC schools, but I'm honestly surprised at the lack consideration given to other northeast/mid-atlantic schools that could also provide good soccer, a fantastic education and an excellent alumni network and/or job prospects post graduation.  Some schools that come to mind include:

Gettysburg and Union who are always on the list of best alumni networks in the country
Drew University which has a phenomenal Wall Street program not to mention all the pharmaceutical/bio-tech opportunities in NJ
Haverford, Swarthmore, Hopkins (casually mentioned) which are as strong an academic school as anyone else in the country
Babson (ranked #1 in Entrepreneurship, and #30 in Business)
Stevens Tech and MIT

Just an observation, so take it for what it's worth.

[amh63]

Mom1234...got it right!  Sorry about my error.
Anyway, in response to your question wrt to post grad enrollment.  My experience on the topic is primarily in football where there is a roster limit of 75 in the Nescac with " tips' of 15 allotted wrt SATs, etc.  Less tips to other sports.  Talented athletes with grade-sat scores conflict are suggested to attend a prep school for a year to improve grades, etc. and apply later.  Yes, many of the prep schools are feeder schools to the Nescac and have fine academic reps.  It is not uncommon for talented students from inner-city schools to be sent to select  private schools elsewhere to complete their education and improve their chances to succeed in the academic environment of Nescac schools.  In a sense, it is similiar, imho, to student athletes attaching themselves to AAU type teams/ clubs to improve their skill level, etc.  These clubs often are feeder org. many Nescac type schools.  Check out the rosters of Nescac schools in most sports and see the "prep or private" schools listed.  In women sports like soccer it was common to also see particular clubs attached vice high schools.  In basketball, there maybe the D1 transfer schools on occasion.  Recall the transfer of a woman student athlete from Harvard to Amherst.  Primary reason was she wanted to play more than one sport in college.  She played Three at Amherst to 1st team all conference.  There are two players on the No. 1 ranked WBB team that are solid contributors in other sports.  There is a football player from the SF Bay Area that turned down a D1 offer to come to Amherst so that he could also play baseball...heck of a pitcher!  The Amherst soccer team several years back went to Europe and played in Monaco and elsewhere.  Supported by alums...including the Prince of Monaco.  Same case when the baseball team traveled to Japan...alum connection, etc.  Sorry about the digressing. I do that a lot.

[d4_Pace]

 I can speak to the NESCAC travel and I guess really any other questions you may have.  For Tufts specifically the travel wasn't that bad, I was accustomed to similar and worse playing academy soccer outside of the northeast corridor.  The only trip that sucks is to hamilton which we always do in conjuction with playing at amherst.  So play amherst saturday, drive five hours to hamilton after the game, play hamilton sunday early afternoon and then six hours home on the bus.  Beyond that middlebury is 4 hours by bus and everything else is less than 3.  I know a lot of guys on our team said they wouldn't want to fly all over the place like the UAA but my friends on Brandeis didn't seem to mind it too much. 

[blooter442]

I'm finding this thread fascinating. I recognize mom originally asked the question specific to NESCAC schools, but I'm honestly surprised at the lack consideration given to other northeast/mid-atlantic schools that could also provide good soccer, a fantastic education and an excellent alumni network and/or job prospects post graduation.  Some schools that come to mind include:

Gettysburg and Union who are always on the list of best alumni networks in the country
Drew University which has a phenomenal Wall Street program not to mention all the pharmaceutical/bio-tech opportunities in NJ
Haverford, Swarthmore, Hopkins (casually mentioned) which are as strong an academic school as anyone else in the country
Babson (ranked #1 in Entrepreneurship, and #30 in Business)
Stevens Tech and MIT

Just an observation, so take it for what it's worth.

I think these are all good schools and good suggestions. To be fair, though, it is the NESCAC thread we're in, although we certainly aren't limiting it to that, myself included with my plug for 'Deis. Regardless, that along with the nature of the initial inquiry perhaps explains why the answers have been relatively NESCAC-centric.

I certainly don't mean to nitpick, but she did say that her son probably wouldn't get into any of Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, or Bowdoin, so I am not sure that Haverford, Swat, Hopkins, or MIT would be realistic. MIT is arguably harder to get into than all the Ivies bar HYP.

The kids I have known who have gone to Stevens have done well post-graduation and Gettsyburg, Union, and Drew each have their strong points, with the latter being a pipeline to Wall St like you said. I have an aunt who used to work in NJ for J&J and from what I understand they recruit a fair amount of Drew grads as well. And with their run to the Sweet 16 this past year (which is certainly further than many thought they'd go with the well-noted questions about SoS/etc.) and impact players like Aidan Cserhat returning (only a sophomore this past year) they should be set up for success for a while to come on the pitch as well.

That being said -- despite being the archrivals of 'Deis -- I would also give a nod to Babson as a great B-school with a strong MSOC program and more generous acceptance rate than many of the NESCACs.

[mom1234]

Anyway, in response to your question wrt to post grad enrollment.  My experience on the topic is primarily in football where there is a roster limit of 75 in the Nescac with " tips' of 15 allotted wrt SATs, etc.  Less tips to other sports.  Talented athletes with grade-sat scores conflict are suggested to attend a prep school for a year to improve grades, etc. and apply later.  Yes, many of the prep schools are feeder schools to the Nescac and have fine academic reps.  It is not uncommon for talented students from inner-city schools to be sent to select  private schools elsewhere to complete their education and improve their chances to succeed in the academic environment of Nescac schools.  In a sense, it is similiar, imho, to student athletes attaching themselves to AAU type teams/ clubs to improve their skill level, etc.  These clubs often are feeder org. many Nescac type schools. 

Here is an interesting statistic as an example: Hamilton's website lists that in the 2021 class, 11 students were admitted with SATs below 1200 and 33 admitted between 1201 and 1299. I really would love to know how many in each category fit my kid's description: not a minority non-white race/group, "not inner city", not a football player. Only advantage: soccer skills, and from a region with very few applicants.

[Christan Shirk]

FYI - In a very rare instance of using my moderator "powers", I have modified some of mom1234's recent posts, pulling her replies out of the quote boxes for clarity.  mom1234, not knowing what you are doing, I unfortunately am at a loss to know what tip I could provide to help you get your replies showing as replies.  Anyway, carry on.

[Ejay]

I'm finding this thread fascinating. I recognize mom originally asked the question specific to NESCAC schools, but I'm honestly surprised at the lack consideration given to other northeast/mid-atlantic schools that could also provide good soccer, a fantastic education and an excellent alumni network and/or job prospects post graduation.  Some schools that come to mind include:

Gettysburg and Union who are always on the list of best alumni networks in the country
Drew University which has a phenomenal Wall Street program not to mention all the pharmaceutical/bio-tech opportunities in NJ
Haverford, Swarthmore, Hopkins (casually mentioned) which are as strong an academic school as anyone else in the country
Babson (ranked #1 in Entrepreneurship, and #30 in Business)
Stevens Tech and MIT

Just an observation, so take it for what it's worth.

I think these are all good schools and good suggestions. To be fair, though, it is the NESCAC thread we're in, although we certainly aren't limiting it to that, myself included with my plug for 'Deis. Regardless, that along with the nature of the initial inquiry perhaps explains why the answers have been relatively NESCAC-centric.

I certainly don't mean to nitpick, but she did say that her son probably wouldn't get into any of Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, or Bowdoin, so I am not sure that Haverford, Swat, Hopkins, or MIT would be realistic. MIT is arguably harder to get into than all the Ivies bar HYP.

The kids I have known who have gone to Stevens have done well post-graduation and Gettsyburg, Union, and Drew each have their strong points, with the latter being a pipeline to Wall St like you said. I have an aunt who used to work in NJ for J&J and from what I understand they recruit a fair amount of Drew grads as well. And with their run to the Sweet 16 this past year (which is certainly further than many thought they'd go with the well-noted questions about SoS/etc.) and impact players like Aidan Cserhat returning (only a sophomore this past year) they should be set up for success for a while to come on the pitch as well.

That being said -- despite being the archrivals of 'Deis -- I would also give a nod to Babson as a great B-school with a strong MSOC program and more generous acceptance rate than many of the NESCACs.

Yeah, I hesitated posting because I knew this was a NESCAC thread.  I guess my point was simply that the OP seemed to be solely focused on NESCAC schools (where her son may struggle without a tip) whereas there are a bunch of great schools where he could get in without the tip, and still play highly competitive soccer.  The example of Drew and Babson is exactly my point of somewhere that sounds like a great match even though it doesn't have the prestige of the NESCAC schools. 

[blooter442]

FYI - In a very rare instance of using my moderator "powers", I have modified some of mom1234's recent posts, pulling her replies out of the quote boxes for clarity.  mom1234, not knowing what you are doing, I unfortunately am at a loss to know what tip I could provide to help you get your replies showing as replies.  Anyway, carry on.

Bloots' (unsolicited) armchair diagnosis: it appears she is putting her reply within the endtag of "[/quote]" rather than outside of it. When you are quoting a post, only the quoted post should be within the brackets; yours comes after.

The example of Drew and Babson is exactly my point of somewhere that sounds like a great match even though it doesn't have the prestige of the NESCAC schools. 

Certainly don't disagree with that!

[Falconer]

Obviously your son has much to think about, but if you live halfway across the country, why be so focused on NESCAC schools? Nothing against them--great academics and great D3 soccer (depending on the school), but one can also find schools closer to home that aren't "super competitive" while still having excellent traditions in soccer. That way, it's much easier for you to see him play, and maybe the overall fit for him will be better. Someone already mentioned Kenyon, but that could also be a stretch for your son if you think 1250 is his ceiling. The good news is that OWU is right on his academic level, and in soccer they are far above most NESCAC schools. That conference (Kenyon, OWU, etc) is full of good schools and good soccer. And, apparently much closer to home for you.

Because we do have extended family in the Northeast he can lean on... I am from there originally and went to a NESCAC school. Because he's a humanities type and interested in law, I figured we couldn't go wrong. But interesting that the Ohio schools are better for soccer. I didn't know that.

I didn't mean to imply that the Ohio schools in general were better at soccer than NESCAC schools. That's not true, IMO. I was singling out one of them, Ohio Wesleyan (OWU), as far better than most of the NESCACs. I think perhaps everyone here would agree with that much. In recent years, obviously, Tufts, Amherst, and Brandeis have been right at the top of D3 soccer, while OWU has slipped a little. Historically, however, OWU is one of the very top traditions you'll find, and even playing at their recent standard they are much better than most of the NESCACs. If they revert to type any time soon, however, they'll be Final Four contenders again. The biggest question is, who will succeed Jay Martin when he retires--which can't be too far down the road. His career record is just astonishingly good, even though he's won just(!) two national championships.
https://www.battlingbishops.com/coaches.aspx?rc=559&path=msoc

Academically your son might be a great fit at OWU. Certainly he'd get to play a lot of top teams, including Kenyon (a conference rival) and perhaps teams like Calvin and Messiah (both of whom they have scheduled in the past decade).
 

[D3soccerwatcher]

Obviously your son has much to think about, but if you live halfway across the country, why be so focused on NESCAC schools? Nothing against them--great academics and great D3 soccer (depending on the school), but one can also find schools closer to home that aren't "super competitive" while still having excellent traditions in soccer. That way, it's much easier for you to see him play, and maybe the overall fit for him will be better. Someone already mentioned Kenyon, but that could also be a stretch for your son if you think 1250 is his ceiling. The good news is that OWU is right on his academic level, and in soccer they are far above most NESCAC schools. That conference (Kenyon, OWU, etc) is full of good schools and good soccer. And, apparently much closer to home for you.

Because we do have extended family in the Northeast he can lean on... I am from there originally and went to a NESCAC school. Because he's a humanities type and interested in law, I figured we couldn't go wrong. But interesting that the Ohio schools are better for soccer. I didn't know that.

I didn't mean to imply that the Ohio schools in general were better at soccer than NESCAC schools. That's not true, IMO. I was singling out one of them, Ohio Wesleyan (OWU), as far better than most of the NESCACs. I think perhaps everyone here would agree with that much. In recent years, obviously, Tufts, Amherst, and Brandeis have been right at the top of D3 soccer, while OWU has slipped a little. Historically, however, OWU is one of the very top traditions you'll find, and even playing at their recent standard they are much better than most of the NESCACs. If they revert to type any time soon, however, they'll be Final Four contenders again. The biggest question is, who will succeed Jay Martin when he retires--which can't be too far down the road. His career record is just astonishingly good, even though he's won just(!) two national championships.
https://www.battlingbishops.com/coaches.aspx?rc=559&path=msoc

Academically your son might be a great fit at OWU. Certainly he'd get to play a lot of top teams, including Kenyon (a conference rival) and perhaps teams like Calvin and Messiah (both of whom they have scheduled in the past decade).

Just to be clear...Brandeis is not in any way associated with NESCAC.  Brandeis has been a member of the UAA since the 1980's.

[FourMoreYears]

Bottom line....if school coaches have not made an initial contact yet, chances are slim.  However proactive advice posted here may be good if there is still time.  Guess doing a post grad year in a prep school is not a choice?

Well, it's encouraging that just about all the NESCACs he actually contacted have responded with interest. But I did make the mistake of ruling out a few that we should not have; i.e. Trinity, Wesleyan, ... playing a little catch-up now. Interesting you mention this option of a post-grad year at a prep school. We have one in our area in which the directors are NESCAC alum and therefore it's a big feeder school. Someone who knows my son through extra-curric said he could very well receive a scholarship to attend if he plays for their soccer team. It never occurred to me that a prep high school would act like a college in that sense - scholarship for athletic talent. The friend knows the director and was going to try pulling strings to get him in for senior year. I wonder if him taking a whole extra year and doing two years there would be the ticket. Is that what you meant by a post-grad prep school year?

If I may offer a few thoughts ... as a way of background I've had three sons play college sports ... two of which were at NESCAC schools... one of which was a soccer player.

Love that you're gathering as much information as possible so that your son can make the best decision possible. 

If I could only give one piece of advice to any kid looking to play a D-3 sport, it would be this: choose your school as though you are going to blow your knee out the first week of practice and never play that sport again.  That might sound fatalistic, and I don't mean it that way at all.  But soccer (in this case) is only PART of what your son will experience on the campus of these fine schools that are being mentioned in this thread.  Coaches leave, injuries happen, teammates suck, interests can shift from the sport, academics might take priority.  It happens.  But if your son has chosen the right SCHOOL rather than the right soccer PROGRAM, he chances of success over 4 years and his lifetime are far greater.

Wishing you nothing but success ... it's an exciting time in his life and in yours ...