NESCAC

[amh63]

I happen to watch the Midd vs Amherst game online.  Have watched it live at Homecoming...once with the Wesleyan AD along with his friend the former HC of Yale.  The spectators sit on the same side or on the hillside...but not behind the players or the cameras/commentator.  Point here is that two posters differ wrt to the "foul language".  It is hard to hear the coaches on the spectators' side.
Second, listened to the announcer.  He mentioned that the refs were often letting things go between players....yet, there were a lot of fouls on both teams....Midd had more.  Amherst was more aggressive in the second half....being down 1 at the half.  Stats show that.  Once there was a crash between players....but, both players shook hands afterwards.  Amherst's player was a tall FY player...a star in the making.  Midd, after taking a lead, seemed to want to just play defense.  Midd started a FY goalie that played great.  Amherst played it's backup goalie.
Finally, the announcer pointed out the jawing going on between players after the fouls.
Seems to me that the game played on the field vary greatly.  Depends on the watcher..eye of the beholder.  Finally, the players shook hands after the game..coaches too?

[truenorth]

I will attempt to offer some long-term perspective on Amherst and the NESCAC.  As I've mentioned before...and I apologize because some posters have heard this before and yet there appear to be some new posters/parents...my older son played for a nationally ranked D1 (#2 nationally his sophomore year) Brown team and my younger son played for a nationally ranked D3 (#5 nationally his junior year) Bowdoin team.  The key differences at those collegiate levels were overall athleticism and speed of play.  Bowdoin's starting 11 in their best year ever could have hung in for one half in a game with Brown's staring 11, and then Bowdoin would have been overwhelmed...

My younger son was recruited by Serpone during Serpone's first year at Amherst but chose to go to Bowdoin (Note:  Bowdoin had a slightly superior record vs. Amherst during my son's four years).  Serpone presented as a bit of a rooster, was arrogant, and suggested that he was recruiting D1 level athletes.  That was clearly hyperbole, but his recruiting record and the team's performance record have been consistently high at the D3 level over the past 11 years.

That said, the observations about Serpone in person vs. Serpone on the sideline during a game are absolutely accurate.  He can be a charming guy, and his athletes generally like and respect him.  My son had a club teammate who played at Amherst for Serpone and genuinely liked him.  Serpone would compliment my son's play from the sideline (while my son was playing for opponent Bowdoin), which I thought was classy.  But literally at the same time, he could be screaming f*bombs at refs and inciting his players to be borderline rough and ridiculously vocal.  It was...and still is...a remarkable dichotomy in behavior.

I hate to say it Amherst63 and others, but Amherst's teams and their coaches "output" stinks just as much as...if not more in some cases...than any other NESCAC coaches and teams...

[The_View_From_732]

There's a difference between effective and most effective, though. "Direct" vs. "tiki-taka" is a false choice; soccer isn't that simple or that binary. Anyways, I think the problems most people have with Amherst are less about what style of play they use and more about how they handle themselves as people -- when it comes down to it. Tufts has had lots of recent success, and I don't think the reason they get less vitriol has much to do with the fact that they can play "prettier" soccer at times.

I agree that there are a number of other tactics and approaches in between (for example, how aggressive is the press? Who does the pressing? Do your wingbacks provide width, or is it the wide forwards? etc.) Unfortunately those are the terms that tend to be used to describe polar opposites.

This, too, may be simplistic, but I think what also needs to be analyzed in the context of tactics is whether or not a team prefers to play on the front foot (attacking) or soak up pressure and counter (defensive). In that sense, you could actually consider Amherst to be relatively progressive, as they are often on the attack and tend to press all around the pitch rather than soak up pressure. Where I get irked, though, is that upon winning possession they seem to thump the ball forward at first instance, and usually it's a long ball that goes right into the box.

I do get the statistical idea about there being X% of a chance of a goal when it goes into the box — Klopp says an effective counterpress can be "the most effective No. 10" and what I think he means is that the probability of success is usually higher when the ball is won further up the field, as the team is less likely to have set its shape — but there's a difference between winning the ball and playing it to feet (whether a striker making a run through the middle, an outside back making a run down the flank, etc.) rather than just lumping it high and into the box and having your 6'6" guy bludgeon the center back out of the way.

All of this. Co-sign.

And while we are on this general topic, I've been thinking about long throw-ins a bunch. Unlike corners, where there can be a fair amount of variation in routines to get players open -- you can use subtle picks and screens, there are obviously all sorts of short corner routines to get a more efficient chance off a corner -- every long throw-in is the same thing: there's a huge scrum around the 6-yard box and then the two biggest guys on each team stand there and body each other for position and then jump and someone gets lucky. Obviously for some of the bigger teams in the conference this is fine, because their big trees happen to be bigger and stronger than opposing keepers, but every team approaches long throws the exact same way -- and there just has to be a better way. I don't think long throws are necessarily a problem, but idk I want to see some team try something interesting out of one of these

[Buddham]

Midd gave as well as they got. I don't think any of the players would disagree. At the same time, I suspect most would agree the referees were not so great - many missed calls perhaps in the interests of "letting them play" but guys got absolutely mugged. It just seemed like the calls evened out, so ok? FWIW, this game didn't stand out from the typical 90mph bumper cars games at any collegiate level. I'd also note that European and SA styles tend to be even more "robust". It's a contact sport...

Tufts seems to have found a winning formula that combines athleticism, technical ability and a robust work rate. That would be seem the template to mimic rather than any notion of playing a beautiful game for its own sake. I noted that several Champions League teams gave up bad turnovers leading to "cheap" goals. Luca Modric was guilty! If that dude is going to make a bonehead pass every now and then, I can see why a college coach forbids it (b/c of the short season).

I find interesting that a week or go folks presumed it was an Amherst supporter dropping f-bombs when it turned out to be a Conn College fan.

Liverpool hired a long-throw coach and everyone mocked them. Not so much now (but yeah, need to do more than chuck it in the "mixah").

I hate the sub rules but can concede it would allow more players to get minutes except not all the coaches make the most use of the sub allowances. Williams seems to but not all of them. What I hate more is the clock countdown...even high schools rules stop the scoreboard clock and let the refs manage the last 2 minutes (or 5). You know, like real big soccer people do.

[d4_Pace]

https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2019-20/releases/20190930kmm5cu After this interview mark me down for a tasker goal and a Tufts 3-1 win tonight at wesleyan.

[d4_Pace]

Tufts up 1-0 at the half on a goal from another guy forced to take on a depth role despite his talent Derek Enge.

I have been really impressed with Wesleyan. They have kept the ball on the ground and consistently played sharp combinations in their own half. In fact, their ability to break the press forced Shapiro to switch from the 3-5-2 about 15 minutes in.  I really respect them not sitting in but playing their game with no fear against Tufts. Let's see if they can pull off the hardest thing to do in d3 soccer. Get a result from behind against Tufts. Something that hasn't happened in over 3 years.

[The_View_From_732]

Tufts up 1-0 at the half on a goal from another guy forced to take on a depth role despite his talent Derek Enge.

I have been really impressed with Wesleyan. They have kept the ball on the ground and consistently played sharp combinations in their own half. In fact, their ability to break the press forced Shapiro to switch from the 3-5-2 about 15 minutes in.  I really respect them not sitting in but playing their game with no fear against Tufts. Let's see if they can pull off the hardest thing to do in d3 soccer. Get a result from behind against Tufts. Something that hasn't happened in over 3 years.

Fun game. Wesleyan has two turf fields now and should take every opportunity to not play on Jackson Field

[d4_Pace]

And of course I've jinxed it as the game is heading to OT. Wesleyan defender made an incredible play to clear the ball off the line to prevent going down 2-0, and 30 seconds later it was 1-1.

[blooter442]

And of course I've jinxed it as the game is heading to OT. Wesleyan defender made an incredible play to clear the ball off the line to prevent going down 2-0, and 30 seconds later it was 1-1.

Bates gave Tufts a test on Saturday, but Wesleyan did two things that Bates couldn't — score on Tufts and hold out through overtime for a draw. I personally think the Jumbos will be fine and maintain their pole position, although perhaps this quelled any (outside) suggestions that they are going to roll through the league; I say "outside" because for all their confidence in getting results the Tufts players will know that they get everyone's best game in one of the most competitive conferences in D3 and that they can't win every game...has a team ever gone 10-0 in NESCAC play? (I know Amherst almost did in 2015 but drew at Trinity in the last regular season match.) For Wesleyan, a good boost for their confidence — they have looked reasonably convincing since the OT win over Emerson — just prior to a huge test at Amherst...then again, it was Wesleyan who — after missing a penalty earlier in the game — gave the 2015 Amherst team its only loss during that NCAA championship season (on the road, in the NESCAC quarters, the week after getting smacked 5-0 at the same field). I would not bet on the ghosts of 2015 resurfacing but hey anything is possible.

[SlideTackle]

And of course I've jinxed it as the game is heading to OT. Wesleyan defender made an incredible play to clear the ball off the line to prevent going down 2-0, and 30 seconds later it was 1-1.

Game finished 1-1. Wesleyan actually almost won it in overtime when a Tufts header went backwards and off the crossbar. A more than a respectable showing for a program that looks to be turning itself around. Tufts was the better side but Wesleyan showed well in this one. And as a reward they now play the #2 team in the country away on 2 days rest. 

[d4_Pace]

Yeah Tufts went for the win in OT leaving only Paoletta back at half field 1v1 against the wesleyan striker. They produced a couple great chances and couldn't convert and as you said were almost caught with an own goal on the counter.

[Mr.Right]

Reading the recap of the Wes v Tufts match it sounds like Wes scored on a quick counter from their defensive 3rd. This is the 2nd game in a row where Wesleyan has done this. They hammered Clark the other day and scored on a 10 second blitzkrieg up the field that was all started by GK Lowen who did not start last night. This is no coincidence as I am sure after a few years of unimaginative attacking futbol, Wheeler had to get his guys more options and chances. Quick counters especially against Tufts is a great way to get more opportunities before Tufts can set up defensively. Combine more chances with more talent than last season and the same sound defensive structure should bode well this season.

Wesleyan has a long history of springing upsets on Amherst in the Serpone era but also have been susceptible to a complete smackdown. Wesleyan will not have the luxury of playing to feet on Amherst field at least not like they have been the past few games..Amherst will press the crap out them and force tons of giveaways because they would overwhelm Wesleyan IMO. Wesleyan MUST switch it up play extremely conservative 1st Half and whack the ball out of the back, stay home for the most part and get into the Half at 0-0. Then you come out the first 10 minutes and play the exact same way and make Amherst comfortable in the style they are playing against. Hopefully, it is still 0-0 and then by the 60th minute after Amherst starters have a little heavier legs get ur starters in the game and switch it up. Attack with ur wingbacks on occasion, get the ball back on the ground, switch to a more attacking system, etc etc something to get Amherst out of sorts. This is when u have to find a goal before Amherst gets back in rhythm. Probably have 5-10 min. Then hold them off for a furious 20 minutes.

I am just not seeing it on Amherst home field and a clinching of Little 3 title. This game is over early

[The_View_From_732]

Reading the recap of the Wes v Tufts match it sounds like Wes scored on a quick counter from their defensive 3rd. This is the 2nd game in a row where Wesleyan has done this. They hammered Clark the other day and scored on a 10 second blitzkrieg up the field that was all started by GK Lowen who did not start last night. This is no coincidence as I am sure after a few years of unimaginative attacking futbol, Wheeler had to get his guys more options and chances. Quick counters especially against Tufts is a great way to get more opportunities before Tufts can set up defensively. Combine more chances with more talent than last season and the same sound defensive structure should bode well this season.

Wesleyan has a long history of springing upsets on Amherst in the Serpone era but also have been susceptible to a complete smackdown. Wesleyan will not have the luxury of playing to feet on Amherst field at least not like they have been the past few games..Amherst will press the crap out them and force tons of giveaways because they would overwhelm Wesleyan IMO. Wesleyan MUST switch it up play extremely conservative 1st Half and whack the ball out of the back, stay home for the most part and get into the Half at 0-0. Then you come out the first 10 minutes and play the exact same way and make Amherst comfortable in the style they are playing against. Hopefully, it is still 0-0 and then by the 60th minute after Amherst starters have a little heavier legs get ur starters in the game and switch it up. Attack with ur wingbacks on occasion, get the ball back on the ground, switch to a more attacking system, etc etc something to get Amherst out of sorts. This is when u have to find a goal before Amherst gets back in rhythm. Probably have 5-10 min. Then hold them off for a furious 20 minutes.

I am just not seeing it on Amherst home field and a clinching of Little 3 title. This game is over early

I actually disagree. if you can play out of Amherst's initial pressure, there's a ton of space available to exploit, particularly on the switch. I tend not to be an advocate of possession for possession's sake, but against Amherst you have to be willing to play backwards more often and shift the ball side to side, as though it's just a possession game. And then attack the spaces that open up as their press becomes more disjointed. I think if you try to play Amherst's game, you're going to lose even if you keep it close for awhile.

Also, here is the sequence that lead to the goal (~55 seconds) and then below that is the actual Wesleyan goal (~10 seconds). The long clip is a nice distillation of how both teams want to play, I think.

[Mr.Right]

Reading the recap of the Wes v Tufts match it sounds like Wes scored on a quick counter from their defensive 3rd. This is the 2nd game in a row where Wesleyan has done this. They hammered Clark the other day and scored on a 10 second blitzkrieg up the field that was all started by GK Lowen who did not start last night. This is no coincidence as I am sure after a few years of unimaginative attacking futbol, Wheeler had to get his guys more options and chances. Quick counters especially against Tufts is a great way to get more opportunities before Tufts can set up defensively. Combine more chances with more talent than last season and the same sound defensive structure should bode well this season.

Wesleyan has a long history of springing upsets on Amherst in the Serpone era but also have been susceptible to a complete smackdown. Wesleyan will not have the luxury of playing to feet on Amherst field at least not like they have been the past few games..Amherst will press the crap out them and force tons of giveaways because they would overwhelm Wesleyan IMO. Wesleyan MUST switch it up play extremely conservative 1st Half and whack the ball out of the back, stay home for the most part and get into the Half at 0-0. Then you come out the first 10 minutes and play the exact same way and make Amherst comfortable in the style they are playing against. Hopefully, it is still 0-0 and then by the 60th minute after Amherst starters have a little heavier legs get ur starters in the game and switch it up. Attack with ur wingbacks on occasion, get the ball back on the ground, switch to a more attacking system, etc etc something to get Amherst out of sorts. This is when u have to find a goal before Amherst gets back in rhythm. Probably have 5-10 min. Then hold them off for a furious 20 minutes.

I am just not seeing it on Amherst home field and a clinching of Little 3 title. This game is over early

I actually disagree. if you can play out of Amherst's initial pressure, there's a ton of space available to exploit, particularly on the switch. I tend not to be an advocate of possession for possession's sake, but against Amherst you have to be willing to play backwards more often and shift the ball side to side, as though it's just a possession game. And then attack the spaces that open up as their press becomes more disjointed. I think if you try to play Amherst's game, you're going to lose even if you keep it close for awhile.

Also, here is the sequence that lead to the goal (~55 seconds) and then below that is the actual Wesleyan goal (~10 seconds). The long clip is a nice distillation of how both teams want to play, I think.

Nope...play it like u want them to and Wesleyan loses 3-0...u want Wesleyan wingbacks swinging the ball around the back? When does the Amherst press get disjointed? Wesleyan does not have the skill in the back to do this in these circumstances.  Good luck with that...Wesleyan will not have ANY space on that field that gives them any kind of comfort. Sit back and stay within ur game maybe catch them on the counter like thet did Tufts.

[nescacfan94]

I think it depends on how the refs call the game. If the ref 'let's them play' they won't be able to possess. If the ref calls it straight and blows the whistle a lot in the first 10 minutes and sets the proper tone by not letting obvious fouls go, it might be a different story. But refs rarely if ever do that on the Mammoth campus.