NESCAC

[Michel Bernstini]

How is Tufts #2, Amherst is #4, and then Conn College is #17?!  Is it just me or this a little to Tufts-friendly?  https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/top25/men/2019/week11

[Ommadawn]

How is Tufts #2, Amherst is #4, and then Conn College is #17?!  Is it just me or this a little to Tufts-friendly?  https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/top25/men/2019/week11

I would say it's more of a Conn College-unfriendly ranking than a too-friendly Tufts ranking.

Team placements vary, sometimes considerably, across the many rating and ranking systems out there.  On the most recent Massey Ratings I saw,  Amherst, Tufts, and Conn College were listed at 1, 2, and 3, respectively, which might prompt questions about the NESCAC-friendliness of the algorithm used to produce the ratings. 

[blooter442]

I do not remember that at all as fouls like that within the 1st minute of a game usually have some history and / or sending a message.

For sure...I remember in the 2016 final against Calvin Tufts' Lawson flattened someone early in the game and then said something to the kid after as he was still on the ground. Personally I found that somewhat amusing as — while he did a job for a team that won the whole thing — he was no Roy Keane.

[jknezek]

How is Tufts #2, Amherst is #4, and then Conn College is #17?!  Is it just me or this a little to Tufts-friendly?  https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/top25/men/2019/week11

I think it's impressive JHU held on to a 1 vote. They had a heck of a season, but you have to go a little deeper to be #1 in my book. You can be the best team in the country and lose in the Elite 8 or Final 4 on a pk. But it's pretty tough to go out the first weekend. 

[Mr.Right]

Umm isnt that poll like 2 weeks old?

[jknezek]

Umm isnt that poll like 2 weeks old?

ha. Could be. I didn't check the date. That would make way more sense...

[Mr.Right]

I do not remember that at all as fouls like that within the 1st minute of a game usually have some history and / or sending a message.

For sure...I remember in the 2016 final against Calvin Tufts' Lawson flattened someone early in the game and then said something to the kid after as he was still on the ground. Personally I found that somewhat amusing as — while he did a job for a team that won the whole thing — he was no Roy Keane.

Pretty fair to say Lawson was no Roy Keane however Lawson was another one of these guys(like Drew Stern) who sat on the bench I think until his SR year or maybe he started playing later in his JR year but he did not factor in 2014

[Michel Bernstini]

jknez, agreed.  But at least JHU's now at #3.  Tufts at #2 after losing to Amherst and unranked Babson?!  It's just silly.  Their wins over Conn College and Middlebury (twice) are good Ws but... #2?!  While Conn College is #17?  It doesn't make sense.

I want to watch Dortmund (currently losing to Paderborn) so i'll have to pick this up later but... There's a bunch of "What?!"s on this list.

1   Calvin (12)
2   Tufts (4)
3   Johns Hopkins (1)
4   Amherst (3)
5   Kenyon (1)
6   Messiah
7   Oneonta State
8   Chicago
9   John Carroll
10   Franklin & Marshall
11   Washington & Lee
12   Chris. Newport
13   Mary Washington
14   RPI
15   Roanoke
16   Catholic
17   Connecticut Col.
18   Ohio Wesleyan
19   Penn St.-Behrend
20   Claremont-M-S
21   Centre
22   Oglethorpe
23   Texas-Dallas
24   Middlebury
25   North Park

[jknezek]

jknez, agreed.  But at least JHU's now at #3.  Tufts at #2 after losing to Amherst and unranked Babson?!  It's just silly.  Their wins over Conn College and Middlebury (twice) are good Ws but... #2?!  While Conn College is #17?  It doesn't make sense.

I want to watch Dortmund (currently losing to Paderborn) so i'll have to pick this up later but... There's a bunch of "What?!"s on this list.

1   Calvin (12)
2   Tufts (4)
3   Johns Hopkins (1)
4   Amherst (3)
5   Kenyon (1)
6   Messiah
7   Oneonta State
8   Chicago
9   John Carroll
10   Franklin & Marshall
11   Washington & Lee
12   Chris. Newport
13   Mary Washington
14   RPI
15   Roanoke
16   Catholic
17   Connecticut Col.
18   Ohio Wesleyan
19   Penn St.-Behrend
20   Claremont-M-S
21   Centre
22   Oglethorpe
23   Texas-Dallas
24   Middlebury
25   North Park

Well... as Mr. Right pointed out. That poll is from 11/10. So it's almost 2 weeks old and predates the first weekend games.

[Michel Bernstini]

Umm isnt that poll like 2 weeks old?

Through games of Sunday, November 10, 2019.  12 days.  The D3 Tourney Draw was on Nov. 11.  And the D3 1st and 2nd Rounds didn't/don't shake up the Top Teams so much.  EXCEPT... Conn College beating JHU. 

[Michel Bernstini]

Still doesn't make sense.  I'll type something later.  Kenyon at #5 with a #1 vote? Calvin at #1?  Messiah #6?  Oneonta #7?  It just doesn't make sense...

[blooter442]

Pretty fair to say Lawson was no Roy Keane however Lawson was another one of these guys(like Drew Stern) who sat on the bench I think until his SR year or maybe he started playing later in his JR year but he did not factor in 2014

I think he mostly played in 2016. Either way, you raise a good point — Tufts has a lot of guys like that. Najjar started playing his junior year but hadn't featured much before and did a solid job. There are more, just can't think of them at the moment. That's a sign of a well-coached team — guys can come in and not play but they know their role when they step in.

[Flying Weasel]

As has been pointed out, the ranking being discussed is pre-NCAA tournament, so it does not reflect tournament advancement because the tournament hadn't started yet.  We each have our personal, subjective opinions, and my personal Top 25 would differ a bit, especially for some of the teams.  I personally would have kept Amherst #1 despite their loss in the NESCAC semifinals as all other teams had a loss or more this season, theirs just came earlier in the season than Amherst's.  But I think Amherst at #4 is a reaction to a team losing and feeling like you need to have them drop.  Tufts is the defending champions and winners of 3 of the last 5 national titles, so, fair or not, they are going to get the benefit of the doubt when they stumble in the regular season.

[d4_Pace]

Mr right it happened just about exactly as described except it was opening 15 seconds. Back pass off kick off, big ball, elbow straight to the head.

[Michel Bernstini]

I also think Amherst should be #1.  But that's a judgment call.  Some of these rankings aren't a judgment call.  They simply do not make sense.  But, as you're saying, Rankings can be very subjective.