NESCAC

[PaulNewman]

Kuiper, you are more generous than I am.  First, while there may be semantic nuances here, speed of play consistently is used in multiple sports to denote superiority....which doesn't have to mean fast or frenetic, but athleticism and skill usually are viewed as allowing for a higher speed of play...which is consistent with terminology folks use often for high schoolers transitioning to college or college players transitioning to professional...they have to adapt to the speed of play, which may have a cognitive/mental element as well.  The tell is the climate reference that you referenced.  That by itself suggests players appearing fatigued, or not up to par in some way, or something that would explain not looking as good as you might have expected them to look given all the hype.  Of course there is the standard disclaimer, but why else reach so far (all the way to Texas) for a contrast that seems like it is out of left field? 

[Kuiper]

Kuiper, you are more generous than I am.  First, while there may be semantic nuances here, speed of play consistently is used in multiple sports to denote superiority....which doesn't have to mean fast or frenetic, but athleticism and skill usually are viewed as allowing for a higher speed of play...which is consistent with terminology folks use often for high schoolers transitioning to college or college players transitioning to professional...they have to adapt to the speed of play, which may have a cognitive/mental element as well.  The tell is the climate reference that you referenced.  That by itself suggests players appearing fatigued, or not up to par in some way, or something that would explain not looking as good as you might have expected them to look given all the hype.  Of course there is the standard disclaimer, but why else reach so far (all the way to Texas) for a contrast that seems like it is out of left field?

I referenced climate because EnmoreCat specifically mentioned "climate" in his post that you were responding to, which is what I was also reacting to in my post.  He suggested it had to do with being tired.  In soccer, "speed of play" isn't about speed of players, but of the ball leaving players feet and moving from player to player (and speed of mind/thought in making decisions about where to play the ball).  It can be necessary to speed up play because the players are faster players who close you down more quickly, but I didn't take EnmoreCat to be referring to the physical speed of the players or the superiority of the play, but rather to the choice not to press and the choice not to move the ball quickly. If he was referring to physical speed and inferior play, then he was simply mistaken.   It wasn't that St. Thomas or TLU couldn't close players down in a fast, athletic, manner or didn't have the technical skills to play the ball quickly from foot to foot.  It was that they chose to play a different style where they held on to the ball longer rather than getting rid of it quickly.  That is often because the other team isn't pressing, which is a deliberate strategy too.  When players on both sides are more technical, they are often less likely to rush at each other lest they be easily brushed aside by a simple move and then are left out of position.  LigaMX, for example, is generally known as a more technical league than MLS, which has a reputation for being more physical and athletic, but LigaMX is known as having higher speed of play in the sense that the ball leaves players' feet more quickly (which would cause a pressing team to run around in circles chasing it).  My sense is that St. Thomas' players were holding onto the ball too long (hence the slower speed of play) because they had fewer ideas of where to play the ball and less movement off the ball, but you can have slower speed of play because you are toying with the other team too.  It doesn't mean superior or inferior play.

[EnmoreCat]

EnmoreCat, I'm sure you are in hard-core pre-gaming mode with the massive intersectional battle just hours away, but I was curious about your post on Bowdoin vs Hamilton.  First, and I may well have missed it, I don't recall you offering detailed analysis of a non-Amherst match.  Secondly, and what I found far more interesting, was your insertion of speed of play into your analysis, which seemed less about Bowdoin vs Hamilton, and more about highlighting a point you wanted to make about NESCAC speed of play in general.  You've obviously observed in person and via video a lot of NESCAC action, so I suspect you didn't see anything in Bowdoin vs Hamilton that was unique.  You said you weren't making any judgments, and yet you still highlighted something about NESCAC in general that you must think means something or at least something to you.  Third, I was curious about your choice of TLU vs UST as your comparison standard.  Now maybe that's because you really haven't watched much other non-NESCAC action and/or because TLU vs UST for at least a few days so thoroughly consumed the attention of the D3 audience (such as it is). 

At any rate, I doubt anyone questions your observation and conclusion.  NESCAC is widely accepted by almost all of us here as the superior (and perhaps by a significant margin) conference in all of D3, and so it certainly follows and makes sense that NESCAC would have the most superior speed of play.  That said, I'm not sure watching the 20-30 minutes of a match that was mostly 8 v 10 and had so much extracurricular drama is the fairest measuring stick.  UST (who won two NCAA tourney games last year and also led Chicago at the half in the Sweet 16) and probably TLU too would win games in the NESCAC.  I don't know if they would be top half, but they could compete. I'd also be interested in your assessment of speed of play with other comparables...like Calvin vs Chicago, or Calvin vs John Carroll, or W&L vs Christopher Newport, or Johns Hopkins vs F&M, or SLU vs Vassar.  Lastly, I'd suggest that perceptions of speed of play are also often impacted by camera angle and distance akin to what speed of play looks like on video vs live.  The NESCAC video tends to be much closer to the field and at a lower angle since most NESCAC venues are not in stadium or stadium-similar settings.

Sadly, PN I didn't really get to watch today and had to be content with trying to listen, but will try to catch up tonight.  You're right, it's rare I offer anything on non-Amherst games, mainly because I am asleep when most D3 games take place and on a Sunday morning I am most likely to be watching Crystal Palace play.  I did provide some observations on the Hamilton/Middlebury game which I got to watch via a stream, when I was recently visiting.  I did attend Cal Lutheran/ Redlands and Trinity/South Western back in 2018 and remember both days being pretty hot and humid.  It was probably unfair to try and compare the STU/TLU game to the Hamilton/Bowdoin one, but in my defence, I would say that when I watch Amherst, I tend to be looking at other things, like how EnmoreKitten is going and how the Mammoths are playing, rather than directly about the pace of the game.  As a neutral,  in the two games under discussion, I followed the ball.  Your points about camera positioning etc make a lot of sense, and I know from bitter experience this year and last that NESCAC teams can lose to non-conference rivals.  I work on the basis that any team in the top 50 of D3 can be successful against the absolute top tier.  It's really the beauty of D3.

[SKUD]

Well said Enmore!  I think after the initial lineup announcements last night they went to the website to learn the Amherst pronunciations and did better vs their opening butchering. 

[FanofNescac]

The final week of the season and the Nescac table is tight.

Middlebury stands in 1st place while Amherst/Tufts are 1 point behind, and CC in 4th 2 points behind Midd.
Midd has two difficult games to end the season vs Tufts and Williams. Tufts with Midd/Bowdoin to end the season.

Projected final 8:
1. Amherst 23pts (6 points between Bates/Trinity)
2. Middlebury 22pts (4 pts vs Tufts/Williams)
3. Conn College 22pts (6 pts vs Bates and Wes)
4. Tufts 21pts (4 pts vs Midd/Bowdoin)
5. Bowdoin 18pts (6 points in last 3 games)
6. Williams
7. Hamilton
8. Wesleyan

[College Soccer Observer]

I believe that Amherst has Hamilton and Trinity as their remaining games, not Bates and Trinity. 

[EnmoreCat]

I believe that Amherst has Hamilton and Trinity as their remaining games, not Bates and Trinity.

100% correct CSO

[EnmoreCat]

Well said Enmore!  I think after the initial lineup announcements last night they went to the website to learn the Amherst pronunciations and did better vs their opening butchering.

I am saving it for my eventual game summary Skud, but the perfect pronunciation was noticeable!

[d4_Pace]

The final week of the season and the Nescac table is tight.

Middlebury stands in 1st place while Amherst/Tufts are 1 point behind, and CC in 4th 2 points behind Midd.
Midd has two difficult games to end the season vs Tufts and Williams. Tufts with Midd/Bowdoin to end the season.

Projected final 8:
1. Amherst 23pts (6 points between Bates/Trinity)
2. Middlebury 22pts (4 pts vs Tufts/Williams)
3. Conn College 22pts (6 pts vs Bates and Wes)
4. Tufts 21pts (4 pts vs Midd/Bowdoin)
5. Bowdoin 18pts (6 points in last 3 games)
6. Williams
7. Hamilton
8. Wesleyan

Great first post and welcome!
Alternate reality
1) Amherst 23
2) Tufts 23
3) Conn 22
4) Midd 21

Tufts are rounding into form and Enmore cat is lucky he got them early in the year. Can't wait for a potential rematch although knowing the NESCAC the odds of the both making it to the finals of the conference tourney are about zero. So I guess we'll have to settle for a NCAA rematch a la 2018 and 2019.

[Shooter McGavin]

Regional ranking thoughts:

Region 1
1. Middlebury
2. Conn College
3. Amherst
4. Tufts
5. Bowdoin
6. Williams
7. W. Conn

Others: Keene St, Mass-Boston

[FanofNescac]

The final week of the season and the Nescac table is tight.

Middlebury stands in 1st place while Amherst/Tufts are 1 point behind, and CC in 4th 2 points behind Midd.
Midd has two difficult games to end the season vs Tufts and Williams. Tufts with Midd/Bowdoin to end the season.

Projected final 8:
1. Amherst 23pts (6 points between Bates/Trinity)
2. Middlebury 22pts (4 pts vs Tufts/Williams)
3. Conn College 22pts (6 pts vs Bates and Wes)
4. Tufts 21pts (4 pts vs Midd/Bowdoin)
5. Bowdoin 18pts (6 points in last 3 games)
6. Williams
7. Hamilton
8. Wesleyan

Great first post and welcome!
Alternate reality
1) Amherst 23
2) Tufts 23
3) Conn 22
4) Midd 21

Tufts are rounding into form and Enmore cat is lucky he got them early in the year. Can't wait for a potential rematch although knowing the NESCAC the odds of the both making it to the finals of the conference tourney are about zero. So I guess we'll have to settle for a NCAA rematch a la 2018 and 2019.

I can see this too. Tufts has been playing great and I think Ethan Feigin is a terrific player.

[northman]

By the way, I assume some of you watched the Midd v Conn game...which ended in a draw.  Was it as competitive and evenly matched as the scoreline suggests?  I'm interested in getting someone's take on the matchup and the relative strength of the teams.

[College Soccer Observer]

I was there in person.  Conn's field did the game no favors, as it had rained on Saturday and the women played prior to the men's game on Sunday.  Footing was uncertain at times and the ball was not rolling true all the time.  In the first half, both teams tried to play out of the back and through the midfield, but each team was aggressively pressing.  The result was frequent turnovers which led to most of the chances created in the first half.  First half was even.  Midd took the lead on a gorgeous free kick from Tyler Payne from 19 yards.  He got it over the wall and back down, and Silvester never even moved.  Conn was on the front foot for the next 10 minutes or so.  Their equalizer was unlucky for Midd fans, the result of a great move if you favor the Camels.  An attacker (can't remember which one), got free in the area and ripped a shot that was header for the corner.   Grady flung himslef across the goal with a full extension dive and tipped it off the post.  The rebound went to the one Conn player in position to do something about it, and he finished the chance.  Midd had a golden chance to score with about 6 minutes left off a scramble in front, but put the ball just wide.  All in all, a result that was perhaps more welcomed by the Camels than the Panthers, but not grossly unfair.  I believe both teams can make deep runs in the NCAAs, which is not that surprising given their undefeated status.

[PaulNewman]

The final week of the season and the Nescac table is tight.

Middlebury stands in 1st place while Amherst/Tufts are 1 point behind, and CC in 4th 2 points behind Midd.
Midd has two difficult games to end the season vs Tufts and Williams. Tufts with Midd/Bowdoin to end the season.

Projected final 8:
1. Amherst 23pts (6 points between Bates/Trinity)
2. Middlebury 22pts (4 pts vs Tufts/Williams)
3. Conn College 22pts (6 pts vs Bates and Wes)
4. Tufts 21pts (4 pts vs Midd/Bowdoin)
5. Bowdoin 18pts (6 points in last 3 games)
6. Williams
7. Hamilton
8. Wesleyan

Great first post and welcome!
Alternate reality
1) Amherst 23
2) Tufts 23
3) Conn 22
4) Midd 21

Tufts are rounding into form and Enmore cat is lucky he got them early in the year. Can't wait for a potential rematch although knowing the NESCAC the odds of the both making it to the finals of the conference tourney are about zero. So I guess we'll have to settle for a NCAA rematch a la 2018 and 2019.

This post from our Tufts physician alum who scored from his right back position in a national semi in his frosh season obviously exudes a little gamesmanship.  That said, the post also reflects part of what makes Tufts such a formidable foe.  Under Shapiro and with the help of a run only matched by Messiah in modern times, Tufts built a culture so strong that it always was going to have a chance to continue thriving post-Shapiro.  You know a program is a great one when getting knocked out in the Elite 8 or Sweet 16 is considered a major disappointment.

As great as Amherst has been over the past 15 or so years -- and the Mammoths have been great by any measure -- Amherst over the past 8-10 years has played second fiddle to Tufts, even though Amherst has had multiple Final Four and national final appearances during that same span.  For the Tufts program and its players, a new year or where they may be predicted to finish in NESCAC, is pretty irrelevant to them and their overall psyche.  The Jumbos don't think they can win, or can win if they play really well, or have a 50/50 chance against a team as good or allegedly better....no, instead, they enter every game believing they should and will win.  It may not seem like that big of a deal, but that level of confidence, only enjoyed by the rarest of programs (think Messiah, Tufts, and maybe Amherst and Calvin), is a huge advantage.  Of course having really good teams also really helps, and helps make your program a destination program for attractive recruits.

I do think this is a big year for Dezotell.  He stepped into a job that in many ways was ideal and one of the very best in the country while also being impossible (in the sense of hoping to even come close to duplicating what Shapiro did).  The list of programs/coaches who have won three out out of four and four out of six national titles is short...like really, really short.

I love the Tufts at Middlebury match on our doorstep.  I ranked Midd #2 in the country this week, and I do believe that Midd believes "this is our year."  However, Midd is one of those teams I hinted at above that knows they can win and definitely believes they have as good a chance as anyone if they play up to or very close to their capability.  But the Panthers don't yet have the "we absolutely will win this game" mentality.  You get there by breaking through barriers...and this Tufts game is a chance to get a little closer to that mentality.  If Midd loses, they will still be confident and still consider themselves top tier national contenders, but they won't have the extreme confidence level of, let's say, Messiah, Tufts, and Amherst.  Tufts on the other hand could lose Saturday, and even end up 4th or 5th in NESCAC, and there will be little impact on how they fancy their chances in the NCAA tournament.

So, until proven otherwise....Tufts 2, Midd 1.

[PaulNewman]

I watched most of Midd vs Conn Coll video...and I thought the teams were very even and that the play for the most part was even.  I would slightly disagree with CSO about Midd being a bit unlucky on the Conn goal.  Grady indeed made a incredible save that very, very few GKs would have gotten a hand on, much less saved.  It was a well-struck ball ticketed for the just inside the right post.  Great save, and as CSO noted, Conn perhaps was fortunate to have a guy right there to knock it in.

What impresses about Conn and especially Coach Burk is that they do not panic.  They were down 1-0 fairly late to Amherst and prevailed 2-1.  Midd was up 1-0 and Conn managed to equalize.  Burk has Conn back to where they were 2 years ago.  I don't know how long Jaran is out (and he was out for a big portion of last season), but would definitely hurt if he isn't available for the post-season.  Conn does have multiple offensive weapons....maybe not one as outstanding as the very top offensive players in the conference but as a group they may be as good as any. 

Midd is very, very good...and solid across the board.  Obviously Midd's defense is stout, led by one of the top GKs in the country.  I do wonder if Midd is short another high level offensive threat.  Losing St Louis would be devastating....so like always injuries and avoiding major injuries will play a large role in who emerges in the the post-season.