NESCAC

[All NESCAC]

Why does NESCAC play so few games?  I understand that fewer games means, fresher, more rested, less injured team when going into the playoffs.  Other than that what is the advantage of fewer games?  Is it a financial thing?

Trust me, it's not a strategy to do better in the playoffs.

In my opinion, it's an institutional bias against athletics by the part of the NESCAC college Presidents, who worry that they won't been seen as strong academic schools should athletics do too well.  They want to be seen as the "Little Ivys".  For example, the NESCAC football teams only play 8 games (which is crazy because that means they don't even play every team every year which they could by adding a 9th game!) and are not allowed to compete in the D3 playoffs.  That's changing slowly, but it is most definitely about managing the perceived "brand" and nothing to do with trying to gain a competitive advantage. 

Oh, and I think the NESCAC Presidents are wrong.  They could have their cake and eat it too.  They just prefer to nibble on the hummus and roasted veggie plate.

Spot on....goes back 40+ years.  The football issue (which is just mindboggling not to add a 9th game) perfectly illustrates the inflexibility of the League/Presidents as they "protect the brand". 

[PaulNewman]

Good to see everyone getting revved up as kids head back for preseason and games jsut 2 weeks away.

The NESCAC historically and currently is one of the top conferences.  Maybe what has changed is that they are not necessarily considered the #1 conference anymore, or at least without debate. but they surely are among the top 3-4.  Some of the criticisms in this thread recently could be directed at the UAA as well (another top conference).  They do tend to get some easy 1st round games, but there are other quality programs that end up in their region (SLU, Wheaton, Babson, Hobart, now Gordon, etc).  Would love to see Williams and Amherst put in different regions as well.

The stance of the NESCAC Presidents is interesting to me, as on the other hand the schools seem to take great pride in their lofty finishes in the overall sports race (Learfield Cup or whatever that is), and most or all of the NESCACs are known for having very athletic (albeit very bright) student bodies).  I think we discussed this last year.  Would be nice to see home and away series between NESCACs and some Centennial or NJAC or NCAC teams.

One comment on the size issue regarding Messiah.  They were huge.  Very skilled and lovely to watch but Wood, Payne, Robbins, etc are physically imposing players and some of the others are very solidly built.

[lastguyoffthebench]

They just prefer to nibble on the hummus and roasted veggie plate.  CLASSIC.

Messiah will almost always be a contender for the title.  At this point, in that conference, they will be tournament bound year in and year out.  When you have your big time guys only playing 55-65 minutes a game, it certainly helps for deeper postseason runs.  It also gives the young guns a chance to get some playing time and improve under the system in place.

[D3soccerwatcher]

Don't forget that Messiah did not win their conference last year.

[PaulNewman]

D3SW, that last point has got to be your weakest.  Messiah DID win the regular season, and they lost in their tournament in a fluky game where they outshot Lycoming something like 50 to 3 and lost in PKs.  You can't make a case based on that their conference is as tough or that Lycoming would beat Williams or any top-half NESCAC except in a similarly fluky manner.

[nescac1]

And don't forget that Williams made two straight final fours in years in which Amherst dominated NESCAC.   This whole argument started with a claim that NESCAC is not a power conference. I think that's been put to rest.  Unless someone can name, say, five better conferences, and support that claim. 

[frank uible]

Power conference or not, NESCAC prefers, and foreseeably in the future will continue to prefer, whatever it is doing, and nothing said here or elsewhere on the street will influence NESCAC to make any change.

[D3soccerwatcher]

Messiah did lose in the Conf tournament and relied on an at-large bid to get into the national tournament (I didn't place any value judgement on it like calling it "flukey", I just stated the fact).  By the way, SOG where 7-2 in the Conf final.  Lycoming gave themselves a chance to win for the simple fact that they have learned how to defend Messiah, unlike many others who have been unable to figure that out. 

This whole power conf discussion, while interesting at times, really doesn't amount to much in the end.  If you are a national caliber team you will emerge, no matter what conf you are in.  If you can't emerge then maybe you're not quite national caliber.  It really gets down to the best teams in the nation no matter where you find them or what conference they happen to be in. 

As for NESCAC - I truly have respect for your top teams as they have demonstrated over time that they are long-term quality teams - I'm sure that would be true no matter what conf they were in.  I hope to see a few NASCAC teams make some runs this year - as they frequently do. 

As we enter the season I'll be watching for the best teams to emerge - and I'll be following those teams wherever I find them.  All the best for success and particularly for safety and injury free seasons for all the terrific D3 players who make all our "rantings and ravings" possible on this site.  Enjoy the season...and may the best teams win.

[LaPaz]

DAMN people your blowing up this board with the never ending crap about who's conference is best. START A NEW THREAD

[D3soccerwatcher]

DAMN people your blowing up this board with the never ending crap about who's conference is best. START A NEW THREAD

LaPaz, you obviously have problems with any words in the english language longer than four letters.  The four letter foul language is completely out of bounds on this site (hopefully you know that), and beyond that it's offensive.  Also you used two more four letter words (you seem to like those) when you should have used five letter words...your versus you're and who's versus whose.  So please watch the four letter stuff and let's keep it civil.  Good luck with the upcoming season.  If one of your NESCAC teams emerges as a top national D3 team, and I hope they do, I'll certainly be watching.

[D3soccerwatcher]

D3SW, that last point has got to be your weakest.  Messiah DID win the regular season, and they lost in their tournament in a fluky game where they outshot Lycoming something like 50 to 3 and lost in PKs.  You can't make a case based on that their conference is as tough or that Lycoming would beat Williams or any top-half NESCAC except in a similarly fluky manner.

NCAC New England - I think you make a good point and I wanted to respond to your question before I get off this thread.

Lycoming played Messiah twice last year - lost 2-1 and won in PK's.  Williams played Messiah once - lost 4-0.  That might be at least the basis of a case for Lycoming vs NESCAC teams.  Unless we think Lycoming could completely "fluke" it's way through 2 full games and two full overtime periods versus Messiah - that seems like it would be almost be impossible to do.

[LaPaz]

d3socecerwatcher...HERES another four letter word BLOW me. sick of these right wing bible thumping fools

[PaulNewman]

D3SW, your comeback on LaPaz impresses as juvenile through and through.  There was no really bad language there, and I'm sure LaPaz can handle himself in a grammar battle quite well.

Are you suggesting that Lycoming would have won the NESCAC last year?  What was Lycoming's record?  Your use of data and the inferences you make are specious to say the least.

Have you ever seen one of those result trees that "prove" Wooster would beat Alabama in football because Wooster beat someone who beat someone who beat who beat someone who beat someone, who then beat Alabama, so that Wooster>Alabama?  That's what your logic reminds me of.

[KnightFalcon]

No way Lycoming does better in NESCAC than middle of the pack. They had a monster finish to their season last year - congrats to them - and now have to live up to those expectations this season. Ask Neumann how tough that was after beating Messiah in OT using a similar bunker approach in 2011. That makes for a couple of interesting match ups this year as Messiah hosts both teams in 2014 for the first time since those upsets.

[CAC2424]

I don't think Lycoming makes the NESCAC playoffs.  Remember the 7th and 8th place team in the conference both tied Amherst who had a 40 game unbeaten streak. 

Enough about the 4-0 score against Williams.  Using one game's score as a reference point doesn't work in sports.  Brazil lost 7-1 to Germany but the US lost 1-0. Does that prove that the US is CLEARLY better than Brazil? Of course not.  Are they even in same class as Brazil? Of course not. 

Messiah was clearly "on" that night, were the better team, and won. Nothing more to see here.  Please move on to your own threads.