NESCAC

[Corazon]

D3soccerwatcher - I think you're reading way too much into one result, which happened to be in the national semifinal. Amherst was the NESCAC's best team, but they were upset. Those things happen. As for this year, I'd say the average NESCAC team would do quite well against an average team from another conference. Let's see what happens on the field before we declare the NESCAC dead.

[Corazon]

The current Massey rankings, which I've found to be pretty accurate, has the NESCAC rated #2 conference, behind the UAA.  They have plenty of NESCAC teams in the national top 25.

The flawed Bennett Ranking still has NESCAC ranked #1. Bennett gives too much weighting to strength of schedule, tilting the power to NESCAC.

NSCAA rankings are done by a committee of 8 representatives, each representing a different geography. It stands to reason that the votes will be pretty spread out and not allow any particular conference to dominate.

Let's see what happens in the NCAA

[blooter442]

The current Massey rankings, which I've found to be pretty accurate, has the NESCAC rated #2 conference, behind the UAA.  They have plenty of NESCAC teams in the national top 25.

The flawed Bennett Ranking still has NESCAC ranked #1. Bennett gives too much weighting to strength of schedule, tilting the power to NESCAC.

NSCAA rankings are done by a committee of 8 representatives, each representing a different geography. It stands to reason that the votes will be pretty spread out and not allow any particular conference to dominate.

Let's see what happens in the NCAA

Agreed. I would be particularly interested to see how mid- and lower-level UAA and NESCAC teams would stack up against each other. I imagine it would be quite even.

[PaulNewman]

Predictions

Wesleyan 2 Williams 1

Amherst 4 Colby 1

Midd 3 Trinity 1

Conn Coll 2 Tufts 1

Bowdoin 1 Hamilton 1


Williams 2 Bowdoin 1

Midd 3 Hamilton 0

Colby 2 Conn Coll 1

Tufts 4 Trinity 1


Curry 1 Bates 0

[Flying Weasel]

The NESCAC AND UAA have more strength/quality top to bottom then other conferences (the Centennial Conference had a several year run not long ago when they were on par with these two, IMO).  But that obviously doesn't mean their best are any better than other conferences' best, only that their 3rd thru 6th teams are better than other conferences 3rd thru 6th.  It would be very interesting to see the UAA and NESCAC go head to head, #1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, #3 vs. #3, and on down through.  Otherwise, as Corazon said, let's see what happens in the NCAA tournament.  While that will have to wait another few weeks, we can reflect on how the two conferences have performed in the tournament in the past and I find it hard to look at the tournament record and use the word "best" in conjunction with the UAA.

I'll give the NESCAC their due as they have been fairly consistent in getting teams into the Elite 8 of the tournament.  The UAA on the other hand, simply has not.  Despite getting the most entrants into the tournament most years, the UAA only has had two Elite 8 appearances in the past 17 years (and both times an upset eased their path).  That does not seem like the record of one of the nation's top two conferences. I think it does illustrate that having a lot of good teams does not equate to having true title-contenders.  The NESCAC went 8 years from 1999 to 2006 without a Final Four appearance*, similarly illustrating that point.  (* they then impressively sent four different teams in four years).

To be fair to the UAA in the above comparison, the NESCAC has a certain advantage with its teams being bunched in the same quandrant of the bracket.  Sure, it prevents them from getting multiple teams deep in the tournament, but facilitates them getting one team deep.  The UAA has their teams spread out, but as mentioned that has enabled them to grab more at-large berths then the NESCAC. But advancement aside, I believe the NESCAC has had genuine title-contenders on a more frequent basis.  In fact, has the UAA hasn't had a true title-contender in at least 20 years?  Is Brandeis going to be an exception to that trend?  For me the jury is still out. 

[blooter442]

The NESCAC AND UAA have more strength/quality top to bottom then other conferences (the Centennial Conference had a several year run not long ago when they were on par with these two, IMO).  But that obviously doesn't mean their best are any better than other conferences' best, only that their 3rd thru 6th teams are better than other conferences 3rd thru 6th.  It would be very interesting to see the UAA and NESCAC go head to head, #1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, #3 vs. #3, and on down through.  Otherwise, as Corazon said, let's see what happens in the NCAA tournament.  While that will have to wait another few weeks, we can reflect on how the two conferences have performed in the tournament in the past and I find it hard to look at the tournament record and use the word "best" in conjunction with the UAA.

I'll give the NESCAC their due as they have been fairly consistent in getting teams into the Elite 8 of the tournament.  The UAA on the other hand, simply has not.  Despite getting the most entrants into the tournament most years, the UAA only has had two Elite 8 appearances in the past 17 years (and both times an upset eased their path).  That does not seem like the record of one of the nation's top two conferences. I think it does illustrate that having a lot of good teams does not equate to having true title-contenders.  The NESCAC went 8 years from 1999 to 2006 without a Final Four appearance*, similarly illustrating that point.  (* they then impressively sent four different teams in four years).

To be fair to the UAA in the above comparison, the NESCAC has a certain advantage with its teams being bunched in the same quandrant of the bracket.  Sure, it prevents them from getting multiple teams deep in the tournament, but facilitates them getting one team deep.  The UAA has their teams spread out, but as mentioned that has enabled them to grab more at-large berths then the NESCAC. But advancement aside, I believe the NESCAC has had genuine title-contenders on a more frequent basis.  In fact, has the UAA hasn't had a true title-contender in at least 20 years?  Is Brandeis going to be an exception to that trend?  For me the jury is still out.

As I have said before, I refuse to make a judgement on which is the "better" soccer conference, as I believe both are excellent. But you raise an interesting point, and I believe there are many interesting things in this debate. Brandeis is the only UAA team to have won the NCAA Championship, while both Middlebury and Williams have won it from the NESCAC, so in that category the NESCAC has the advantage. However, the UAA has had more bids in the last few years. Conversely, the NESCAC, as you said, has had more final four appearances in the last 20 years. On the other hand, some might argue that the UAA has more parity top-to-bottom, thus making it more "competitive."

In conclusion, I would say it all depends on one's viewpoint and what factors they believe carry the most significant weight in defining who is more "successful." As seen here, different factors benefit different conferences, and different people have different views of what "success" is. One thing is for sure, though—it will be fun to see how things shake up this year.

[PaulNewman]

The UAA also has the advantage (or disadvantage) of being 3 teams smaller than the NESCAC, which I think adds to the perception of more across the board strength with the UAA, even though Case, NYU, and to some extent Chicago, have struggled comparatively.

For my money the Centennial appears to have quite a bit of depth this year.

Remarkably, virtually every conference is showing some weakness that seems unexpected, at least in its relative uniformity.

[PaulNewman]

I'm not the historical expert that some of you are, but I would think major stumbling blocks in the NCAA tournament for the UAA have been Messiah and OWU.  If memory serves Wash U has lost a couple of close ones to OWU.  Brandeis is really the one that has ended up head to head with the NESCAC, and if they are going to break through it would make sense that this is the year. 

[Flying Weasel]

Well, when you get 4 or 5 teams into the tournament most years, it takes more than just Messiah and OWU to keep you from getting some one deep into the tournament.  Like I said, I think the UAA is a very good conference that regularly is full of good teams, but they rarely have a title-contender.  The few times a team seemed to be a contender they couldn't live up to expectations (Emory a time or two, comes to mind).  And then of all UAA teams to reach a Final Four, NYU unexpectedly did in 2006 (motivated by an off-the-field situation), upsetting a darn good Stevens team in the second round.

It would seem that Brandeis picked a favorable year to make a run at the title with the NESCAC seemingly being a little down this season.  But they play the games for a reason and if they face a NESCAC school or two in the tournament, I personally would still be hesitant about picking a UAA team over a NESCAC team.

[PaulNewman]

Wesleyan already up 1-0 on Williams in first 4 minutes.

[D3soccerwatcher]

D3soccerwatcher - I think you're reading way too much into one result, which happened to be in the national semifinal. Amherst was the NESCAC's best team, but they were upset. Those things happen. As for this year, I'd say the average NESCAC team would do quite well against an average team from another conference. Let's see what happens on the field before we declare the NESCAC dead.

Corazon - I think you take a very reasonable position with your comments.  I particularly like the let's wait and see what happens approach. The NCAA tournament will give us a very good indication of the quality of the top NESCAC team(s).

[amh63]

Amherst wins over Colby 3-1 at home.  It was 2-1 at the half.  As the sun came out, Amherst seemed stronger and to me dominated the Mules.  Watched after the football game, so do not see the first half and only the last 26 minutes.

[MENESCACFAN]

WEEKEND ROUNDUP PART 1

Well this weekend had the chance to open up a three horse race atop the division, which ended up being vey much not the case, with the race for top 4 spots getting very tight.

WESLEYAN 1 WILLIAMS 2

This was a chance for Wesleyan to grind their way to the top of the pack, but The Ep's reentered the picture of hosting a NESCAC playoff game.

A goal by Adam Cowie-Haskell sent Wesleyan into the interval a goal ahead, before NESCAC leading scorer and MVP front runner Zach Grady leveled matters for the Eph's.  Maine product Luke Pierce then struck a vital winner for Williams, with both goals being assisted by English midfielder Chris Conder.

BOWDOIN 3 HAMILTON 1

Bowdoin rolled to their 5th straight win in Clinton, NY.  Hamilton is a notoriously difficult road trip fir NESCAC teams, and it spake volumes for the current Polar Bear squad that they could win comfortably in such a hostile environment.

Sam White, Eric Goitia and Matt Dias-Coasta all found the net for Bowdoin, with Erich Marcks resounding for Hamilton.

Goalkeeper Steve van Siclin made 2 saves for the Polar Bears, suggesting another impressive defensive display.

MIDDLEBURY 1 TRINITY 1

A point that does for for the Panthers than it does for the Bantams.  Greg Conrad responded to an early Fernando Cuevo Torr strike to put Middlebury in the #6 spot, while the Bantams are on the outside of the playoff spots looking in.

TUFTS 3 CONN COLLEGE 1

The rampant Jumbos continued their fine form in a game that explode to life during the first 12 minutes.  Kevin O'Brien gave Conn the lead before the prolific Jumbo offense burst into action.  Gus Santos and giant center back Peter Lee-Kramr netted for Tufts, before Connor Brown rounded out a win that keeps Tufts firmly in the #2 spot.

COLBY 1 AMHERST 3

Colby continue to put up good fights in conference games, but the Amherst juggernaut rolls on and continues to lead the NESCAC with their unbeaten record.

Jae Heo opened the scoring Amherst before Nico Pascual-Leone scored either side of half tim.  A goal by Dan Vogel gave dolby a brief glimmer of hope by sending the Mules in at half time with only a 2-1 deficit.

[Jump4Joy]

Keeping it tight for the homestretch (if you can call it a homestretch when some teams have just under half of their conference games left to play!) is a good thing for fans (exciting) and for teams (motivational).

It's a little early to be lining up POYs and All-Stars, but any candidate list without Bull and Pascual-Leone is incomplete at best. Did you see the latter's bicycle kick yesterday that led to the first goal?! It was legit. Several believed it to carom from the underside of the crossbar and over the line, but it took a clean-up touch to convince the ref. I know many believe that the accolades should belong to seniors, but I've already seen ridiculous picks for POY, seemingly given out of some kind of sentimentality vs. reality.

Also, fellas, while the scorers' tables vary in accuracy and philosophy (Tufts, for example, records double assists), I'll reiterate that it doesn't make sense to be using the overall stats to compare conference players. I don't say this just because P-L has 13 to Grady's 8 as of this morning; in fact, I proposed this idea before P-L was the league point leader.

Finally, while it's fun to throw names out there, I know that anything I say means nothing when it comes down to it. But let's keep having fun and throwing them around anyway.

[Corazon]

Pascual-Leone was superb yesterday.